Basic Navmesh function question

[Guest deleted42202115]

I am finishing a version of Fallout 4 with only creature NPCs. How do creatures and navmesh function? Will mixing area mods and breaking navmesh cause changes for creatures? Could this cause bounding box issues or other issues? I assume creatures don't have issues with tree mods adding trees? I can handle basic conflict merging. For now I am careful with load order and previs overlap. Maybe next year I will learn to generate new previs and LOD. Mostly curious about creatures navigating with and without navmesh.

[84Cronos]

Actors in general can't navigate without navmesh afaik. Only certain air type actors might not need nav mesh. What I've noticed from my testing is that actors can move a little bit out of the nav meshed area if there is no collision that is stoping them. Other than that: If there is no nav mesh in a certain area they won't intentionally move into that area, the only way they can end up in non nav meshed places is when they perform some kind of special action e.g. a jump or attack animation that alters their position. Tree mods in general shouldn't be a problem as long as they only replace trees in certain places. If they add a lot of additional trees that have collision in an already nav meshed area, chances are high that actors might get stuck on them. Since the AI isn't completely brainless, it should probably be fine most of the time and not that noticable, but it ultimately comes down to the specific case.

 

If I was you I would look up one of Zorkaz' great tutorials on how to generate LOD and then play around with some nav meshing and test it in game and to see how the actors behave.

[Guest deleted42202115]

Thank you for the information. So I think this is right. Creatures are actors and actors navigate on navmesh. If there is no navmesh in an area NPCs will ignore the area. If there is a tree with collisions on navmesh NPCs will try to go around the tree. Trees can block a navmesh area but are not likely to be in narrow areas or to be so many in an area. Trees can be set with or without collisions. Fallout 4 will always have some rare NPC failures. Creatures manage well enough during collision issues most of the time.

 

I have combined A Forest and Rustbelt with custom set densities and select textures from Borealis, Vivid, and others. It is working well and is absolutely amazing. I only see some incorrect tree LODs in Sanctuary areas and it seems to only be elm trees. I need to learn proper LOD and previs generation (will start with Zorkaz) and now I know broken navmesh is not an option for creatures. With this many trees I might need to fix problem collisions by removing some tree collisions or trees. Navmesh, collisions, I think I understand how things need to be. This is a massive task half done. Part 2 must wait for me more learning.

 

Thank you again. I like to help and it means a lot when others help. Happy modding.

[greekrage]

Thank you for the information. So I think this is right. Creatures are actors and actors navigate on navmesh. If there is no navmesh in an area NPCs will ignore the area. If there is a tree with collisions on navmesh NPCs will try to go around the tree. Trees can block a navmesh area but are not likely to be in narrow areas or to be so many in an area. Trees can be set with or without collisions. Fallout 4 will always have some rare NPC failures. Creatures manage well enough during collision issues most of the time.

 

I have combined A Forest and Rustbelt with custom set densities and select textures from Borealis, Vivid, and others. It is working well and is absolutely amazing. I only see some incorrect tree LODs in Sanctuary areas and it seems to only be elm trees. I need to learn proper LOD and previs generation (will start with Zorkaz) and now I know broken navmesh is not an option for creatures. With this many trees I might need to fix problem collisions by removing some tree collisions or trees. Navmesh, collisions, I think I understand how things need to be. This is a massive task half done. Part 2 must wait for me more learning.

 

Thank you again. I like to help and it means a lot when others help. Happy modding.

Im a little confused about your question or its wording...

You say "mixing area mods" i suspect you mean new location mods or overhauls of settlements etc... Depending on the mod sometimes its part of the process to edit the navmesh to account for the changes made but unless the author is totally clueless the navmesh works as intended... Dont confuse physically modding a location with the navmesh...They are 2 separate things . The navmesh is basically part of the surface that is edited accordingly to guide the npc's around objects,over objects,up and down etc.. . Objects like trees etc or any static object dont change the navmesh unless they have navcut data (we are talking about stuff the player places )... When an author places objects in a location using the game editor they have to manually edit the navmesh and assign various properties to it like navcuts,preferred pathing etc... and most seasoned mod authors TEST the navmesh before uploading their mods. Though mistakes are made or some details are overlooked sometimes but they dont break your game . Ive seen people (rarely ) complain that a certain app tells them that some mods are flagged as having errors in the navmesh ... Personally i think its B.S. in most cases since that app compares to a vanilla navmesh. You cant have a working vanilla navmesh after you have changed the terrain and moved,removed,added etc.. objects to the location....Hence you have to edit,remove etc.. the navmesh in those edited areas to account for the changes... Example: if i as a mod author placed a static object with collision somewhere that was originally a clean path for the npc and NOT edit the navmesh ... Then the npc would bump into the tree and try to walk through it...

[RoNin1971]

If there is a tree with collisions on navmesh NPCs will try to go around the tree.

 

Nope. They will try to go through the tree and moonwalk against it.

At least, that's what I think will happen based on recent experience, were I put a custom object in the middle of the street at Sanctuary. (for checking it out)

It didn't take long for Sturges, Preston & a few others to start moonwalking against it.

 

The collision prevents them from walking on, but the navmesh is still there on the street, so the engine tries to go over it.

 

To prevent this, the model needs a 'navmesh cut' object. (at least, it apears that way to me at the moment)

 

edit:

I would suspect all 'vanila' trees have this, so NPC's should still walk around, but not because it has a collision, but by punching a hole in the existing navmesh.

Edited April 18, 2023 by RoNin1971