(Mod Request) Gestalt / Another Silly Thing

[drew2319]

Would it be possible to create a system to allow Gestalt? Theoretically, couldn't you up the level cap to level 40, then make it so level 1 and 2 are reached at the same time, then 3 and 4, 5 and 6, etc? With the intention that the player would Multiclass every two levels, so you could be a Bard 3 Cleric 3...at "level 3"? At "Level 40", you would be the equivalent of a gestalted 20 / 20 class?

 

Also the other silly thing I was wondering if the people under the hood could do...is it possible to make buffs and certain spells...stack? Like an entire PARTY of Guidance, or making a Goblin Colossal with Enlarge/Reduce cast repeatedly? XD

[RuincrafterMage]

I have been trying to figure out a way to do this with the current published mod tools/cheat engine tables, but there are some hiccups.

 

If you use the "level 20 multiclass" mod, you can level up multiple classes as long as none of them exceed level 12, extending the level cap. (You can edit the files to make the level cap whatever you want) You would just need to cheat exp so you can level multiple classes at once.

 

However, there are a few problems with doing it this way:

 

• Cantrip damage scales with total level at certain intervals, making them too powerful too early
• Same with proficiency bonuses (affecting things like attack rolls and skill checks)
• You would need to adjust HP back to normal every time you level, since you get hit dice for each class level.
• Certain things in the game are confirmed to scale with your total level, like vendor inventories.
• You get spell slots too early if you multi-class caster classes

To combat these issues you would need to make a mod that lets you level up a class without it counting towards your total level, discount its hit dice, and not count it towards your spellcaster level.

Edited August 15, 2023 by RuincrafterMage

[drew2319]

I have been trying to figure out a way to do this with the current published mod tools/cheat engine tables, but there are some hiccups.

 

If you use the level 20 multilevel mod, you can level up multiple classes as long as none of them exceed level 12, extending the level cap. (You can edit the files to make the level cap whatever you want) You would just need to cheat exp so you can level multiple classes at once.

 

However, there are a few problems with doing it this way:

 

• Cantrip damage scales with total level at certain intervals, making them too powerful too early
• Same with proficiency bonuses (affecting things like attack rolls and skill checks)
• You would need to adjust HP back to normal every time you level, since you get hit dice for each class level.
• Certain things in the game are confirmed to scale with your total level, like vendor inventories.
• You get spell slots too early if you multi-class caster classes

To combat these issues you would need to make a mod that lets you level up a class without it counting towards your total level, discount its hit dice, and not count it towards your spellcaster level.

Dang, so with the current tools we have, and the system limitations, it's actually a lot harder than I thought it would be to do...thank you for the very clear and concise way of explaining this, in such a way that even I can understand it with very limited modding knowledge. Yikes. You'd have to...rework a lot of base code, then. Or work in an entirely separate leveling system.

 

I wonder if instead of attacking this from a "you get a level" standpoint...could it be possible to redefine what you GET from a level? Like...instead of getting one choice of class, you get two?

[RuincrafterMage]

 

Dang, so with the current tools we have, and the system limitations, it's actually a lot harder than I thought it would be to do...thank you for the very clear and concise way of explaining this, in such a way that even I can understand it with very limited modding knowledge. Yikes. You'd have to...rework a lot of base code, then. Or work in an entirely separate leveling system.

 

I wonder if instead of attacking this from a "you get a level" standpoint...could it be possible to redefine what you GET from a level? Like...instead of getting one choice of class, you get two?

 

 

Yeah, you could do it that way. You could create a custom class that combines the features of the gestalt classes you want. Gycicada released a class template mod today, so we might see some gestalt mods using that method in the future.

 

The problem with this method I imagine is it would be hard to make classes with different spellbooks work together if they are now one superclass. In tabletop gestalt you keep track of your class features and spellbooks seperately even though you level both. Also, you would have to create a new custom class every time you want to try a new gestalt combination. With 12 classes in the game, thats alot of combinations to individually code.

[drew2319]

 

 

Dang, so with the current tools we have, and the system limitations, it's actually a lot harder than I thought it would be to do...thank you for the very clear and concise way of explaining this, in such a way that even I can understand it with very limited modding knowledge. Yikes. You'd have to...rework a lot of base code, then. Or work in an entirely separate leveling system.

 

I wonder if instead of attacking this from a "you get a level" standpoint...could it be possible to redefine what you GET from a level? Like...instead of getting one choice of class, you get two?

 

 

Yeah, you could do it that way. You could create a custom class that combines the features of the gestalt classes you want. Gycicada released a class template mod today, so we might see some gestalt mods using that method in the future.

 

The problem with this method I imagine is it would be hard to make classes with different spellbooks work together if they are now one superclass. In tabletop gestalt you keep track of your class features and spellbooks seperately even though you level both. Also, you would have to create a new custom class every time you want to try a new gestalt combination. With 12 classes in the game, thats alot of combinations to individually code.

 

I assume if you did this epic Superclass mod, the easiest way to set it up would just be to pool the two classes' spell list, give about 1.5x the normal spell slots, and have it all pull from one unified book. Use the more restrictive of the two casting methods (prepared or spontaneous)...

 

Though yeah, uh. Apparently 12 different classes, with a max of two each...makes 66 different Superclasses. Huh. So the Superclass Mod route would be a LOT of work too, so...that's not likely either. Dangit!

[JeffreyTheRed]

 

 

Dang, so with the current tools we have, and the system limitations, it's actually a lot harder than I thought it would be to do...thank you for the very clear and concise way of explaining this, in such a way that even I can understand it with very limited modding knowledge. Yikes. You'd have to...rework a lot of base code, then. Or work in an entirely separate leveling system.

 

I wonder if instead of attacking this from a "you get a level" standpoint...could it be possible to redefine what you GET from a level? Like...instead of getting one choice of class, you get two?

 

 

Yeah, you could do it that way. You could create a custom class that combines the features of the gestalt classes you want. Gycicada released a class template mod today, so we might see some gestalt mods using that method in the future.

 

The problem with this method I imagine is it would be hard to make classes with different spellbooks work together if they are now one superclass. In tabletop gestalt you keep track of your class features and spellbooks seperately even though you level both. Also, you would have to create a new custom class every time you want to try a new gestalt combination. With 12 classes in the game, thats alot of combinations to individually code.

 

 

I'm not a modder and I'm pretty sure this is exactly how you'd have to do it without making significant and dangerous changes to the games code. And, as you bring up, you'd need a new class for every gestalt combination someone wants to play. There are complications combining spellbooks. Also, let's not forget that you potentially lose your class tags for story/conversation triggers. It's possible that can be worked around, as I'm not sure how it is handled in the coding.

 

I'll be curious to see if anyone takes this project on. I have a few gestalt builds I wouldn't mind running in this game.

[RuincrafterMage]

 

 

I'm not a modder and I'm pretty sure this is exactly how you'd have to do it without making significant and dangerous changes to the games code. And, as you bring up, you'd need a new class for every gestalt combination someone wants to play. There are complications combining spellbooks. Also, let's not forget that you potentially lose your class tags for story/conversation triggers. It's possible that can be worked around, as I'm not sure how it is handled in the coding.

 

I'll be curious to see if anyone takes this project on. I have a few gestalt builds I wouldn't mind running in this game.

 

 

Hopefully there is an easier way, but the fact that the game has been in early access since 2020 and no modder has done this yet makes me think it's complicated. Pathfinder WOR had a Gestalt mod released pretty shortly after its release.

 

 

 

I assume if you did this epic Superclass mod, the easiest way to set it up would just be to pool the two classes' spell list, give about 1.5x the normal spell slots, and have it all pull from one unified book. Use the more restrictive of the two casting methods (prepared or spontaneous)...

 

 

 

Though yeah, uh. Apparently 12 different classes, with a max of two each...makes 66 different Superclasses. Huh. So the Superclass Mod route would be a LOT of work too, so...that's not likely either. Dangit!

 

 

Yeah and what about attributes? How do you decide if your spells use intelligence or charisma if you do a wizard/sorcerer combination?

 

Not to mention someone who wants to gestalt 2 subclasses of the same class or something.