Easy way to fix Unarmed - make Combat tree skills affect it

[mathoma94]

I'll admit I'm not tremendously far in the game, so some of this is conjecture, but my understanding is the main issue with Unarmed becomes apparent at higher levels when the lack of weapon mods or basically any scaling causes drastic damage dropoff. There are a a few skills that help Unarmed besides Boxing, but these are mostly stun/down focused and don't solve this problem.

 

However, the Combat tree has a few skills that could vastly bolster Unarmed, but just...don't for whatever reason:

 

• Dueling is the most obvious as it provides additional % dmg, dmg reduction, movement speed, and recovery... but it only affects melee weapons, not Unarmed
• Incapacitation increases EM dmg and a % chance to do 300% EM dmg... but it states it only affects EM weapons, not Unarmed (even though Unarmed does additional EM dmg at rank 2 of Neurostrikes)
• Armor Penetration lets attacks ignore % of armor and even includes armor reduction after crits (which Unarmed could benefit from given the crit chance increase from rank 1 of Martial Arts)... but I've read testing online that this doesn't affect Unarmed for whatever reason
• Crippling increases chance that enemies enter a downed state as well as a huge dmg boost to downed opponents... but again, I've read testing online that this also doesn't affect Unarmed for whatever reason

 

A mod that makes the above skills affect Unarmed could go a long way, assuming it could also modify the rank-up requirements for each skill to be Unarmed-friendly. The EM damage boost and armor penetration could especially give Unarmed players a fighting chance against robots.

 

Unlike the other proposed mods I've seen which just imagine adding flat or scaling damage to Unarmed, having Unarmed benefit from these ranks in Combat skills would incentivize players to branch into the Combat tree in order to maximize effectiveness, prioritizing different skills depending on their playstyle, and letting Unarmed grow with them into later levels. Seems a bit more fun that way, but maybe that's just me.

 

I'm sure it would still not be even close to competitive with strong ballistics or heavy weapons builds, but it'd certainly be serviceable and - more importantly - more engaging. What Unarmed loses in raw #'s compared to those builds could be made up for with the extra stun, EM damage, and situational damage, with the speed, heals, and defense increases helping to make up for the severe lack of range, lending to a unique yet still somewhat viable playstyle in the endgame.

 

The only slight issue is that maxing out Dueling and Incapacitation still leaves 3 more points you need to invest into the Combat skill tree to unlock the final tier in the tree (for Armor Penetration and Crippling), which would probably need to go into something unrelated thus making it tough to stay a "pure" unarmed character. Demolitions may be the best bet in that case as it at least comes with explosion dmg reduction (useful when you hit jetpacks) and grenades/mines are a solid AoE complement for Unarmed, anyway. This also doesn't fix the issue of the game lacking additional attack animations besides the three punch combo and uppercut, but that's another issue for another day.

 

As a separate idea... If you wanted to address the damage dropoff that Melee experiences as well (albeit to a lesser degree than Unarmed), maybe this could all be packaged in a Melee & Unarmed mod that does the same favors to Melee (i.e., letting them benefit from more Combat tree skills than just Dueling) so that Melee can be a bit more viable as well without needing a flat damage buff, which works but, again, is not very engaging.

Edited September 19, 2023 by mathoma94

[Secretlabz]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't understand why Bethesda would include this as a playstyle if it would be a massive waste of time as you get further into the game? I feel like they should also get you some faster punches or more animations as you unlock martial arts and neurostrikes.

[mathoma94]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't understand why Bethesda would include this as a playstyle if it would be a massive waste of time as you get further into the game? I feel like they should also get you some faster punches or more animations as you unlock martial arts and neurostrikes.

 

100% agreed. I have to imagine they planned to do more with Unarmed but just... ran out of time to flesh it out? Then again, hand-to-hand was also extremely gimped in Oblivion and Skyrim despite both games having skills dedicated to it. Fallout 3, NV, and 4 had decent Unarmed potential with no major late-game viability issues, if I remember correctly (though it's been a while). Maybe Bethesda likes to take turns making Unarmed meme or meta with each franchise?

 

I personally still love Unarmed despite everything as I find punching folks to ragdoll, especially in low gravity, just never gets old. But I've not played ballistics/laser weapons enough to be able to speak to compare it from a gameplay satisfaction-standpoint, if that makes sense. Plus, that enjoyment factor for Unarmed goes way down when you're fighting bosses with high HP and the slow kill time makes fights drag and results in taking too much damage.

Edited September 19, 2023 by mathoma94

[Secretlabz]

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't understand why Bethesda would include this as a playstyle if it would be a massive waste of time as you get further into the game? I feel like they should also get you some faster punches or more animations as you unlock martial arts and neurostrikes.

 

100% agreed. I have to imagine they planned to do more with Unarmed but just... ran out of time to flesh it out? Then again, hand-to-hand was also extremely gimped in Oblivion and Skyrim despite both games having skills dedicated to it. Fallout 3, NV, and 4 had decent Unarmed potential with no major late-game viability issues, if I remember correctly (though it's been a while). Maybe Bethesda likes to take turns making Unarmed meme or meta with each franchise?

 

I personally still love Unarmed despite everything as I find punching folks to ragdoll, especially in low gravity, just never gets old. But I've not played ballistics/laser weapons enough to be able to speak to compare it from a gameplay satisfaction-standpoint, if that makes sense. Plus, that enjoyment factor for Unarmed goes way down when you're fighting bosses with high HP and the slow kill time makes fights drag and results in taking too much damage.

 

Yeah I'm still going to go into my unarmed playthrough, I am just hoping that the perks get a small overhaul. Going to try the less spongey enemies mod to see if it makes things feel a bit better.

[mathoma94]

Well, good news - a mod has finally been released buffing Unarmed! It's not exactly what I had in mind but it at least gives Unarmed scaling depending on your level, so it's more viable at higher levels (but not OP).

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/3900

Edited October 9, 2023 by mathoma94

[zanity]

Yeah, yeah, yeah- we all know why virtually every form of RPG choice in Starfield is utter rubbish. Asking why is daft. This was a game for normies where you take the obvious path in every respect, plow thru what passes for a story, and then move on to your next game.

 

People who say "if only this was tweaked, or if only that were modded" make me howl with laughter. The game would still be utter rubbish.

 

Starfield needs tearing down and rebuilding. Unarmed combat needs this- everything you may wish to be in the game needs this. Not a series of pathetic hack mods released for clout. But total new systems created from scratch with complete awareness of how and why people role-play, and continue to invest time in a game.

 

Luckily it seems that this will be more than possible, given time. The BAD NEWS for those of you with poor impulse control, who thought Starfield was sold with "mods included", 'given time' means between 2 and 5 years.

 

I'm reminded of when the dreadful Cyberpunk released. Every promise broken, and all actual adult content (out side of one cut scene) removed. But normies bought it in record number, then engaged in all kinds of mental gymnastics to 'defend' the game. Of course 3 years later, CDPR did actually release a very feeble 'overhaul' but the sad effort remained essentially the same.

 

Day One, Starfield is much worse than Cyberpunk. But unlike Cyberpunk, Starfield is going to be truly moddable in almost every way. And strangely, space SF is probably the absolute best open world genre to get modders doing their best work.

 

There are people who will want to focus on a great unarmed playthru. Hopefully they'll be supported by great new frameworks in the direction of animation, visual effects, perks, stat systems etc. In the meantime, if one must play starfield, play it in the way Todd wants. That is all the game is made for today. It is the only way to experience a disappointing adventure to the extent Starfield functions as well as it can. What is the point of a play style where your head is banging against a wall all the time?