crashing every 5 minutes while traveling on foot

[RuthlessPheonix]

I understand that adding more NPCs is going to have a negative affect on Skyrim's stability. But what I'm wondering is... why did it work so well before I reinstalled skyrim? Even now I can spawn 70 vs 70 battles with no problem. I am also using interesting NPCs and your inconsequential npcs (thank you). Why are these more stable than immersive patrols that uses no scripts?

[ripple]

I understand that adding more NPCs is going to have a negative affect on Skyrim's stability. But what I'm wondering is... why did it work so well before I reinstalled skyrim? Even now I can spawn 70 vs 70 battles with no problem. I am also using interesting NPCs and your inconsequential npcs (thank you). Why are these more stable than immersive patrols that uses no scripts?

Adding NPCs to the game does not necessarily have a "negative [e]ffect" on Skyrim. It depends on where you add the actors, what sort of actors, what they do, and how many you add. Adding stuff to the -worldspace- has always degraded -worldspace- instability (how much depends on what and how much of it is added). This is an engine issue that has plague Bethesda's Gamebryo games since Oblivion. It's why every Bethesda Gamebryo game suffers from a depopulation problem. This wasn't particularly obvious to many users for Fallout 3 and New Vegas because those games took place in a post-apocalypse setting (so it seemed natural the sandbox would look so depopulated), but it's obviously very apparent in Skyrim (and was in Oblivion as well).

 

Adding stuff to -interior cells- is less taxing because there is less stuff that needs to be simultaneously rendered and things can be unloaded from memory during cell transition, whereas in the worldspace, the transitioning boundaries between encounter zones is far less clear (this is why I intentionally avoid adding NPCs to small settlements located in the worldspace and do not add 'roaming' traveler type NPCs, even though users are constantly requesting it).

 

The author of 'Immersive Patrol' is fully aware of this, which is one of the reasons why he has made IP 'modular', allowing the user to pick and choose the combination of plugins that is suitable to their preference and to meet the threshold for stability in their modded setup. It's the best that can be done by the author given the sometimes unpredictable limitations of the engine and the infinite combinations of modded setups. The full complement of IP would probably run perfectly fine even on a mid-range spec system if that was the only mod you are using. But when added to a heavily modded load order, the situation changes. This is why I suggested you consider 'scaling back' rather than using every single IP plugin (since you mentioned that the majority of your CTDs occur in the worldspace, rather than say, in interior cells or city zones). If you are having issues primarily or exclusively when you are in the worldspace, then it stands to reason that mods affecting worldspace activities are involved in some way in that instability (though not necessarily 'causing' them).

 

Also, keep in mind that NPCs from 'Interesting NPCs' and 'Inconsequential NPCs' are not random spawns nor utilize spawn markers. Rather, they are all unique actor refs. As they are unique actor refs, all InconNPCs are flagged as 'location persistent' primarily so they can fill quest aliases (for the purpose of the 'dialogue scenes'), but more so to ensure they will be unloaded from memory when you 'leave' the location in which the actor is persistent, whereas actors flagged as 'permanently persistent' will not be unloaded during transitions (some 'Interesting NPCs' are flagged as permanently persistent, but not many and not enough to put a real dent in your game performance).

 

Also, just because a mod uses scripts does not mean it's less stable than one that does not. I guess this is one of those 'Skyrim modding myths' that's been spreading for a while. It ultimately depends on what the scripts do. When people say that 'script heavy' mods can affect game stability and performance, they are referring primarily to mods the use continually updating scripts, like Frostfall, Wet 'n Cold, Player Head-tracking, and so on, where running scripts are needed to do things like periodically check and monitor your character status. This is different from mods that simply rely on a couple of script fragments intended to execute simple, one time, functions.

 

Anyways, what I am trying to say in this wall of text is that while there are some 'general rules' about figuring out whether a mod will 'tax' your game stability and performance prior to installing and testing it in game, those 'general rules' only apply in a general sense. Ultimately, the quality of the specific mod will be a more important determining factor on if and how it will affect your game stability, rather than merely the 'nature' or 'type' of mod it is.

 

So, to troubleshoot your current issue, take a note of the mods in your installation that might be 'working' at the time and location you experience CTDs (including aforementioned type of mods that are continuously 'working'), so you can narrow down the possible causes and culprits that is contributing to your game instability.

Edited January 14, 2014 by ripple

[ZerOxShadows]

Very insightful posts, Ripple. I have a similar problem to the OP and do in fact use Interesting NPCs, Inconsequential NPCs, and Immersive Patrols while being relatively conservative in overall mod usage. I've found that I CTD in exterior cells and have always suspected the problem to be Immersive Patrols mod but was unable to prove my suspicions. I will uninstall IP and report back.

 

Would it be advisable to uninstall Immersive Patrols from my current save game or would you recommend that I start a new game? Is there any difference from starting a new game without any mods then adding them or starting a new game with mods preloaded?

Edited January 15, 2014 by ZerOxShadows

[ripple]

Very insightful posts, Ripple. I have a similar problem to the OP and do in fact use Interesting NPCs, Inconsequential NPCs, and Immersive Patrols while being relatively conservative in overall mod usage. I've found that I CTD in exterior cells and have always suspected the problem to be Immersive Patrols mod but was unable to prove my suspicions. I will uninstall IP and report back.

 

Would it be advisable to uninstall Immersive Patrols from my current save game or would you recommend that I start a new game? Is there any difference from starting a new game without any mods then adding them or starting a new game with mods preloaded?

I don't use IP any more, but when I did, I do recall it does not come with any scripts, let alone continually updating scripts, so uninstallation should not leave anything behind that will damage your save games. You should probably go into an interior cell without NPCs (any player homes will do) and make a new save prior to uninstallation, as a 'safety measure.' Starting a new game after would probably not be necessary. If you want to be really cautious, you can wait in the interior cell for 10+ days for the worldspace cells to respawn (or however many days you've set the worldspace cells respawn time to, if it's been changed in your game).

[ZeroLambda]

 

Very insightful posts, Ripple. I have a similar problem to the OP and do in fact use Interesting NPCs, Inconsequential NPCs, and Immersive Patrols while being relatively conservative in overall mod usage. I've found that I CTD in exterior cells and have always suspected the problem to be Immersive Patrols mod but was unable to prove my suspicions. I will uninstall IP and report back.

 

Would it be advisable to uninstall Immersive Patrols from my current save game or would you recommend that I start a new game? Is there any difference from starting a new game without any mods then adding them or starting a new game with mods preloaded?

I don't use IP any more, but when I did, I do recall it does not come with any scripts, let alone continually updating scripts, so uninstallation should not leave anything behind that will damage your save games. You should probably go into an interior cell without NPCs (any player homes will do) and make a new save prior to uninstallation, as a 'safety measure.' Starting a new game after would probably not be necessary. If you want to be really cautious, you can wait in the interior cell for 10+ days for the worldspace cells to respawn (or however many days you've set the worldspace cells respawn time to, if it's been changed in your game).

 

 

I've been discovering the problem with dynamic spawn CTDs myself recently.

 

I absolutely love mods like Bandit Raids and Populated Skyrim Civil War as they add a whole bunch of immersion factor (and fun factor to boot), but I just can NOT get them to play nice with my Skyrim install without causing CTDs if I get too close to the action. With mods, without mods, old save, new save, etc. It's frustrating, and in the end I probably am going to drop them from my mod list. All of my other mods work properly together, save these few.

 

Your replies are much appreciated, Ripple! I also have to fanboy a little bit and say that I love your Incon NPC mod. That one works just fine.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Seizon

[ripple]

 

 

I've been discovering the problem with dynamic spawn CTDs myself recently.

 

I absolutely love mods like Bandit Raids and Populated Skyrim Civil War as they add a whole bunch of immersion factor (and fun factor to boot), but I just can NOT get them to play nice with my Skyrim install without causing CTDs if I get too close to the action. With mods, without mods, old save, new save, etc. It's frustrating, and in the end I probably am going to drop them from my mod list. All of my other mods work properly together, save these few.

 

Your replies are much appreciated, Ripple! I also have to fanboy a little bit and say that I love your Incon NPC mod. That one works just fine.

 

Thanks. :smile:

 

I don't want to give the impression that any mod that adds dynamic spawns to the worldspace are automatically 'bad.' It really depends more on the individual user's modded setup and how much strain is already placed on the game. IP comes in a modular format so that users can test the 'threshold' of worldspace stability for their modded setup to find out just how much they can populate it without causing issues. The fact that the author does this rather than bundled everything into one giant plugin (as is the case with some other similar mods, like Warzones), is a sign of experience (it is more time consuming to maintain modular plugins than just have one plugin).

 

Even for a heavily modded setup, I would imagine that you could still run at least a couple of IP plugins without issues (but as always, mileage will differ for different modded setups). You just have to keep some sort of 'tally' regarding how much strain is already placed on your game by mods that are affecting the worldspace. So the first thing I would suggest is not necessarily to uninstall IP completely, but to start 'scaling back' the number of IP plugins you are using, to see if the worldspace becomes a bit more stable in your game. If it does, you can keep doing it until you reach a 'safe threshold.'

Edited January 16, 2014 by ripple

[mindw0rk2]

Its not only about spawns, its about mods that add alot of clutter. ETAC while stable alone can be a headache if used in heavily modded Skyrim. It can easily be a cause of crash if your game is on the verge of engine limit. Id say its much more demanding then Immersive Patrols.

Interesting NPCs and IMmersive Creatures are another heavy hitters

[kingdark]

Ooohhh, I have both immersive creatures and interesting npc's... maybe that's the cause of my random crashes too,

[ripple]

1) 'Interesting NPC's' does not add a lot of 'stuff' to the worldspace, and will not add extraneous strain to worldspace stability.

 

2) ETAC does not add a lot of clutter, it adds a lot of statics (and NPCs). Managing NPC (outdated Radiant )AI taxes the engine far more than rendering some lootables or building structure statics. If you are experiencing CTDs or freezes when transitioning to settlement encounter zones modified by ETAC, it might be the excessive strain of having to load all that stuff.

Edited January 17, 2014 by ripple

[mindw0rk2]

1) 'Interesting NPC's' does not add a lot of 'stuff' to the worldspace, and will not add extraneous strain to worldspace stability.

 

2) ETAC does not add a lot of clutter, it adds a lot of statics (and NPCs). Managing NPC (outdated Radiant )AI taxes the engine far more than rendering some lootables or building structure statics. If you are experiencing CTDs or freezes when transitioning to settlement encounter zones modified by ETAC, it might be the excessive strain of having to load all that stuff.

 

I dont know much about technical side, but I did a lot of testing.

Interesting NPCs definetly adds a lot to this strain. I could add 5 minor mods and game was nice and stable. Installed Interesting NPCs and bam, constant crashes during transitioning in various places. Same with ETAC.

 

The day when someone releases mod that resolves excessive strain issue and lets me use more mods, will be one happy day for me.

Edited January 17, 2014 by mindw0rk2