Ammo Clips

[Thaiauxn]

Fallout 3 is my favourite game. I love its realism, but it has a serious immersion killer:

 

Reloading.

 

Being a Brit, I don't get my hands on guns very often, but when I'm in the states I take every chance I can get to go shooting with my yank friends. I got really used to watching my current ammo clip and counting shots before reloading, then when back in London, with my hands on a mouse, I don't need to do that any more. That's a just wasted habit.

 

I don't want to reload my current magazine to full every time I get the impulse to hit "R."

 

What I really want to see in fallout is a script that runs ammo in clips, not as individual shots.

 

It makes conserving ammo a real concern, and combatt more interesting. Finding compatable magazines in the world and manually reloading them sounds like a chore in a FPS, but I really like the idea of it. Fallout is still an RPG hybrid, so why not add that extra mile of micromanagement to the programme?

 

Ever played the Game Oni? That game has a similar system, only insdead of being able to reload clips, or change them out for a full one in your inventory, you just dropped the half spent magazine and loaded the next full one. Said clip's ammo dosent magically transfer to the next magazine, it just drops with the old clip to the floor and ceases to exist. That sucked.

 

The point of that was to make guns a limited aspect of the game, and made hand to hand fighting more important. (It was a hybrid FPS + Fighter.)

 

If we can set up a script that creates ammo clips, and tracks their capacity, the Oni system, I'd be happy. If we have one that creates clips, and a second script to swap them in the inventory when R is hit (the gun behaving like it were empty until the button is pressed,) I'd be ecstatic.

 

It would it require another script to reload each clip after/during battle manually.

 

I'd find that more engaging.

[DrGordonFreeman]

I like the idea, as complicated (and near impossible) it sounds, for a game like Fallout 3. But if anyone could work on this, I'd like this. I too, have a problem with the ammo magically teleporting from a half-spent magazine, to a fresh one, without anything stopping it. Ammo doesn't work like that, it'd be nice if it did, but it doesn't. And finding proper magazines for a gun would be good. The G3's (known as R91 Assault rifle, otherwise to casual players, the normal Assault Rifle) magazine shouldn't be usable with the Chinese Assault Rifle's (A hash of many AK designs, not even gonna try an' explain that here) magazine-well. So finding correct mags, for a certain gun would be cool!

 

 

 

One little error I'd like to point out, as a Gun-Fanatic:

 

It's called a Magazine, a clip is a part of the magazine (on modern guns, such as the G3/G36/M16/AK/etc.).

 

A clip on it's own would be like the Stripper Clip of an old M1 Garand (or most pre-Korean War Bolt-Action Rifles, like the Kar98, Mosin Nagant, or similar rifles), where it is only a strip that holds ammo to it, which is than fed into an internal-magazine, that is built into the gun. Only a minor inaccuracy, and most likely one that no one cares about, but being the gun-activist I am, I just had to point it out. :wink:

 

 

Someone get to work on this, see if it's plausable!!!

 

:thanks:

[Springlake]

I like the idea, as complicated (and near impossible) it sounds, for a game like Fallout 3. But if anyone could work on this, I'd like this. I too, have a problem with the ammo magically teleporting from a half-spent magazine, to a fresh one, without anything stopping it. Ammo doesn't work like that, it'd be nice if it did, but it doesn't. And finding proper magazines for a gun would be good. The G3's (known as R91 Assault rifle, otherwise to casual players, the normal Assault Rifle) magazine shouldn't be usable with the Chinese Assault Rifle's (A hash of many AK designs, not even gonna try an' explain that here) magazine-well. So finding correct mags, for a certain gun would be cool!

 

 

 

One little error I'd like to point out, as a Gun-Fanatic:

 

It's called a Magazine, a clip is a part of the magazine (on modern guns, such as the G3/G36/M16/AK/etc.).

 

A clip on it's own would be like the Stripper Clip of an old M1 Garand (or most pre-Korean War Bolt-Action Rifles, like the Kar98, Mosin Nagant, or similar rifles), where it is only a strip that holds ammo to it, which is than fed into an internal-magazine, that is built into the gun. Only a minor inaccuracy, and most likely one that no one cares about, but being the gun-activist I am, I just had to point it out. :wink:

 

 

Someone get to work on this, see if it's plausable!!!

 

:thanks:

Actually it would fit since the latest versions of both weapons in Real Life are built for standard NATO use. And standard NATO use also means 5.56mm ammo.

[Rockatanskiy]

I like the idea, as complicated (and near impossible) it sounds, for a game like Fallout 3. But if anyone could work on this, I'd like this. I too, have a problem with the ammo magically teleporting from a half-spent magazine, to a fresh one, without anything stopping it. Ammo doesn't work like that, it'd be nice if it did, but it doesn't. And finding proper magazines for a gun would be good. The G3's (known as R91 Assault rifle, otherwise to casual players, the normal Assault Rifle) magazine shouldn't be usable with the Chinese Assault Rifle's (A hash of many AK designs, not even gonna try an' explain that here) magazine-well. So finding correct mags, for a certain gun would be cool!

 

 

 

One little error I'd like to point out, as a Gun-Fanatic:

 

It's called a Magazine, a clip is a part of the magazine (on modern guns, such as the G3/G36/M16/AK/etc.).

 

A clip on it's own would be like the Stripper Clip of an old M1 Garand (or most pre-Korean War Bolt-Action Rifles, like the Kar98, Mosin Nagant, or similar rifles), where it is only a strip that holds ammo to it, which is than fed into an internal-magazine, that is built into the gun. Only a minor inaccuracy, and most likely one that no one cares about, but being the gun-activist I am, I just had to point it out. :wink:

 

 

Someone get to work on this, see if it's plausible!!!

 

:thanks:

Actually it would fit since the latest versions of both weapons in Real Life are built for standard NATO use. And standard NATO use also means 5.56mm ammo.

 

Well if we want to be really technical, 2009 in fallout would not have been the same as our 2009 because of the divergence. Since the split supposedly took during WWII and nato was founded in 49, it might not even exist.

 

As for the clip idea, would we just be throwing the excess ammo away, or would we store a half-empty mag for later use? I'm not sure if the game will be able to remember how much ammo is left in each magazine of a feasibly infinite amount of ammo, so why don't we make it so that you can only carry around a few mags at a time? Lets say you can only carry 5 mags of 5.56, and you can only pick up more when you've run out of one. I doubt this would be possible to implement easily though...

[Ninebreaker]

I really like this idea, I've played FPS games for a long time but none really do this in favor of trying to just make the game fun. (or less of a micromanagement POV) Anyways maybe we could see if we could have a separate mod to be attached to CALIBR, which probably would be the easiest method. And I really like realistic feeling of some of the mods. Like for instance I have the weighted ammo mod. Instead of making it were we can only carry a certain amount of ammo, just have the mags have weight too. I don't know about any of you but I've held a bag of magazines for a rifle even 10 mags of 15-20 bullets of 5.56 gets heavy quick. Maybe we could even get someone to do a magazine filling animation. Where u fill it up yourself, would be nice. Even make another script were you have 2 reload buttons. One would be your default quick load R (or w/e your default is) were u just drop your mag and get a new one. Then a second button T or something, were you put away the empty or partial clip instead of dropping it but takes a second or 2 longer. And lastly another separate button to go through empty or partial mags to refill them.

 

Anyhow just some ideas!

 

Edit: Hmm... after some thinking about this mod. It would have some difficulties. Not only would you have to do scripting and stuff to redo how ammo works, wouldn't the mags themselves say how much max ammo guns could use? For instance you can have different sized mags like 10,15,20,30 or drums of 100 or w/e. For energy weapons it switches to a battery level indicator, much like a weapons durability meter, and they can be recharged. Maybe carry a portable charger unit that can recharge energy weapon batteries with fusion batteries or something.

 

Anyhow just some MOAR ideas! lol

[Thaiauxn]

I'm using FOOK with Weapon Mod Kits, and it makes the game far more interesting. The different ammo types are always a concern, so I have to plan ahead when taking companions to ration out their ammo and make sure I have compatible types if anyone runs low. That’s a fantastic strategic view the game does have, forcing you to conserve ammo and carefully distribute it. Magazines are the next step.

 

I've been combing through the tutorials and some of the mods on this site, and I'm starting to get my education in GECK. I'll try and figure something out. I’m a professional actor, I have no idea how to script, unless it’s memorizing one.

 

Nevertheless, I did model and script a few units for Total Annihilation, when fallout 1 was but a new box on my shelf. Ah, HPIs...

 

Here are a few ideas for Magazine Implementation in Fallout:

 

One way this could work, is by creating Magazines that act like containers. Opening the container would allow you to add or remove ammo up to capacity based on the weapon. From what I've read, a limited container in fallout 3 hasn't been scripted. Nor have portable containers been implemented or tested. Both are two new jobs for any scripter.

 

If you pick up the magazine, the game stores the contents in memory. Once added to the player inventory, the "clip" is replaced by the model and animation of the current equipped weapon, where as the container becomes the gun model. The script then references the ammo data stored in memory for that container, and allows the weapon to fire until empty. When dropped, the model returns to the original clip/container and is placed in player inventory as the next is withdrawn.

 

Pressing "R" returns the current container to the player inventory, and starts the reload animation as the next magazine is pulled out (not the equip animation.)

 

Equipped containers show as weapon models, referencing the player/NPC weapon in use as to the data associated with that model.

 

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Option 2 is to basically force weapons to reference only the containers in the inventory for sources of ammo. Upon hitting “R,” the script would load the next clip in order. If the order list is arranged based on remaining rounds, you always load the clip nearest to full. It would possibly be a far easier script in the end. No need to replace weapon models on containers, or equip them for that matter. Unfortunately, it’s not such a drastic change from what we have now, where killing NPCs leaves behind an empty gun and loose ammo on the corpse.

 

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Here is the breakdown of necessary scripts for Option 1, “the complicated option:”

 

Part I - Limited containers

a. Limiting contents

b. Limiting amounts

 

Part II - Portable containers

a. Getting the game to remember container data

b. (No idea.)

 

Part III – Equipping containers

a. Equip a container

b. Replace it upon hitting “R,” or upon contents reaching 0.

c. Referencing current weapon, and replacing it with a container having that model, sound, and animation.

 

Part IV - The Prestige

a. When the Magazine is selected in the inventory window, a seperate container transfer window opens, so there is no need to drop the magazine, crouch to activate, and then reload the magazine. FOSE?

 

 

Looks like Four jobs in one to my untrained eye. Luckily, all the sounds, animations, models and scripting tools are pre-existent? That’s quite a bit of work off our shoulders.

 

There is inspiration in a mod here: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5953

It allows you to drop your back pack, and there it acts like a container. Once you pick it up, however, all contents go straight into your inventory, and the container is deleted. Not what we want, but TGBlank may have experience with problems in our Part II?

 

Another idea source: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2444

 

Ammo sorting for Megaton House. There may be a few lines hidden in this script that can be learned from in regards to tagging certain containers for specific ammo. Maybe for spawning magazines out in the game world?

 

At least if nothing else, a career SAG actor has made me a great networking guy. If I cant find my way through a problem, I can talk people together into a team.

[Rixirite]

I can see what you mean Thaiauxn. When you reload after using 12 bullets from a 30 bullet magazine, it doesn't make sense how the ammo always caps in the reloaded clip even with 30 rounds left.

 

When you take spare bullets and move it into another clip, it's called merging magazines (Simple name) and is a time-consuming process, takes about 30 seconds to a minute depending on your speed.

[Thaiauxn]

I've experienced this merging issue first hand. It's not fun, robs your fingertips of their skin, and requires all kinds of talent to do it quick. My 45 and 308 aren't too bad, they're big rounds on a short magazine, but the 90 rounds FNPS90 takes... forever.

 

That's why, for game play, I suggest just making the magazines containers, with a quick transfer window like anything else.