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I doubt much can or will be done with this game.


shoringu

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On 12/30/2023 at 4:14 PM, HeyYou said:

Even MS QC seems to leave a LOT to be desired.....

Just like every previous beth game, this one too will get mostly fixed, if not by official patches, then by modders.

true! so i play currently the already (mainly) fixed and modded beth games like fnv, fo4 and skyrim (doing really well) and just wait until starfield is worth my money or even such a gem i cannot withstand, most user reviews (without sponsoring) reflect exactly that and most major issues and bugs are fixed...

I would even like to mod a little but i prefer to wait until game is mainly fixed and patched and a more stable environment for modding including ck exists. what some modders already have done and fixed is an incredibly good job and is a reason for hope. 

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13 hours ago, xrayy said:

true! so i play currently the already (mainly) fixed and modded beth games like fnv, fo4 and skyrim (doing really well) and just wait until starfield is worth my money or even such a gem i cannot withstand, most user reviews (without sponsoring) reflect exactly that and most major issues and bugs are fixed...

I would even like to mod a little but i prefer to wait until game is manly fixed and patched and a more stable environment for modding including ck exists. what some modders already have done and fixed is an incredibly good job and is a reason for hope. 

That's generally my approach as well. Give the game a year or three to mature before buying it. But, Starfiled looked like the game I have been waiting for since Privateer came out, way back when, and I simply couldn't resist. I pre-ordered, and got the early access package. 😄 For me, that game runs pretty good, and I haven't seen nearly as many bugs as some folks have. Of course, I have also gotten the modders fixes for a fair few that I DID see. (not to mention mods that alter the game to closer to my preferences....) I've been running steam in offline mode though, and NOT getting the updates as soon as they are available. I am still on 1.7.something..... the subsequent patches don't offer me anything I really need or want, so, I will let THOSE mature for a bit, and maybe another round or two of patches before updating. Hopefully, by then, the CK will be out, and the mods that I am using will be updated via the CK. At that point, I'll likely reinstall the game, and start another playthru. Think I am currently on NG+ 7 or 8.... and level 180something. 😄

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  • 1 month later...

My number one issue is that the game is more computationally demanding than what it outputs in terms of looking good. I cannot run this game at a decent framerate, but I can play Warframe, which looks at least 2x as good on potato settings, i.e. the game Starfield is trying to be in my perhaps contentious opinion. It really just looks like Fallout 4 + some modded texture pack apart from the dialogue when facing NPCs. I found the "stop being poor"-type response to criticism of performance from Todd to be extremely off-putting, and the patches following it really spelled out how they only care about upper end hardware. Can I upgrade? Sure. But it would be the least bang-for-buck I had ever invested in.

The main parts of Creation Engine 2 that modders will be interfacing with is literally the same as CE1, minus some not yet understood aspects of character animation. Papyrus is the same (a handful of new native functions -- "ExecuteConsoleCommand" is a great addition), Scaleform (the UI framework) is the same, image compression as well, and quest production seems to use the same mechanics as before, judging by its Papyrus frontend. There is an upside to this which is that modders should be able to jump right in and that the SFSE team can quickly decode the source code.

But I don't expect much to have changed from CK1 to CK2. This will probably be an as underwhelming experience as the game itself for anyone expecting some type of advances.

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2 hours ago, RaidersClamoring said:

My number one issue is that the game is more computationally demanding than what it outputs in terms of looking good.

Quite right, optimization was clearly not a priority. I saw in October there were even videos made by hardware reviewers about the game's CPU intensive nature..

The game code is not a "dead end" (I think) but the workload needed to run a game released in 2023 on it makes it very demanding. Not to mention some long existing bugs are still present, like the buggy FaceGen... they just tried to cover up the unwanted effects with custom crowd race and such (ironically, it backfired...).

2 hours ago, RaidersClamoring said:

The main parts of Creation Engine 2 that modders will be interfacing with is literally the same as CE1, minus some not yet understood aspects of character animation. Papyrus is the same (a handful of new native functions -- "ExecuteConsoleCommand" is a great addition), Scaleform (the UI framework) is the same, image compression as well, and quest production seems to use the same mechanics as before, judging by its Papyrus frontend. There is an upside to this which is that modders should be able to jump right in and that the SFSE team can quickly decode the source code.

I decoded the native "IsTrue" functions recently for condition forms and condition items which gave me the idea to find a way to implement a condition runner for Fallout 4. And I have to say this is one if not the of most helpful bool function in Papyrus, allowing to perform boolean checks with predefined sets of conditions on any subject and action target refs.

Edit: just to clarify, I didn't port any code from Starfield to Fallout as that's not allowed. Fallout 4 has pretty much equivalent native IsTrue functions that weren't exposed to vanilla Papyrus.

2 hours ago, RaidersClamoring said:

But I don't expect much to have changed from CK1 to CK2. This will probably be an as underwhelming experience as the game itself for anyone expecting some type of advances.

Should be updated for the new data structures but unless BGS has really high hopes from the modder community to make Starfield more popular it won't come with "Next-Gen" features.. (Though somehow they made all the vanilla ships in their development kit so the CK should have some kind of Ship Builder).

Edited by LarannKiar
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Technically the blueprints for ships can already be made in sf1edit, but it's not especially easy to do due to the lack of visual feedback for what is being changed, it's also why a lot of existing ship mods with interiors have poor navmesh implementation, it's not that it can't be done already, it's that it's exceptionally tedious to accomplish, as you have to make educated guesses on positioning, save and exit sf1edit, load the game, test, if it didn't work, close the game, reopen the mod in sf1edit, make changes, save, close, load...it's the typical wash/rinse/repeat cycle, and it comes down to time value, my time is too valuable to waste hours now doing something that will likely take me only minutes when the CK releases, so I am not touching navmeshes or blueprints until then.

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On 3/7/2024 at 2:27 PM, LarannKiar said:

Quite right, optimization was clearly not a priority. I saw in October there were even videos made by hardware reviewers about the game's CPU intensive nature..

The game code is not a "dead end" (I think) but the workload needed to run a game released in 2023 on it makes it very demanding. Not to mention some long existing bugs are still present, like the buggy FaceGen... they just tried to cover up the unwanted effects with custom crowd race and such (ironically, it backfired...).

I decoded the native "IsTrue" functions recently for condition forms and condition items which gave me the idea to find a way to implement a condition runner for Fallout 4. And I have to say this is one if not the of most helpful bool function in Papyrus, allowing to perform boolean checks with predefined sets of conditions on any subject and action target refs.

Edit: just to clarify, I didn't port any code from Starfield to Fallout as that's not allowed. Fallout 4 has pretty much equivalent native IsTrue functions that weren't exposed to vanilla Papyrus.

Should be updated for the new data structures but unless BGS has really high hopes from the modder community to make Starfield more popular it won't come with "Next-Gen" features.. (Though somehow they made all the vanilla ships in their development kit so the CK should have some kind of Ship Builder).

since i am currently happy with fallout 4 performance and with the available mods in general for this game i can not say that for starfield. this game is since release a major let down for me. my expectations were high while the game did not caught me at all as a fallout and scifi fan. i share some modders sentiments who abdoned their mod. i do not waste my time and list details. modders know what i am  talking about. the essence of many reviews contain  my huge disappointment. have fun with this game. i am out for at least a full year...

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On 3/10/2024 at 12:16 PM, xrayy said:

since i am currently happy with fallout 4 performance and with the available mods in general for this game i can not say that for starfield. this game is since release a major let down for me. my expectations were high while the game did not caught me at all as a fallout and scifi fan. i share some modders sentiments who abdoned their mod. i do not waste my time and list details. modders know what i am  talking about. the essence of many reviews contain  my huge disappointment. have fun with this game. i am out for at least a full year...

I play Fallout more than Starfield actually but every time after spending ~20 minutes in Starfield I find something that should be fixed / improved so I always end up making another mod for Starfield.. 🙂 

Well to me it seems Starfield was more about BGS modernizing their engine than to release "the Game of The Year". Of course they had to release a new game with the updated code as they can't just work N years without producing something but unsurprisingly they didn't risk making a sequel of Skyrim or Fallout "on the first try" rather an enterely new game, mostly to not get that many players angry if the results are below expectations. The next chapter is to implement everything that was polished during development to both Skyrim SE and Fallout. They started with Skyrim SE and sooner or later (I think sooner) they'll release the timely-announced Next-Gen update. Pretty well-thought-out plan in my opinion. Anyway, whether BGS considers Starfield "complete" and leave it that or has interest in turning it more popular will mostly deteremine its fate.. as I agree with those posts that the community alone can't turn things around.

Edited by LarannKiar
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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh i love seeing the failed predictions of haters. 

Also, to the person who made fun of someone for saying "yall", if you ever use slang or contractions when speaking you are a pathetic little hypocrite. Nothing worse than some sick bigot who hates people solely because he doesnt like the rural aesthetic.

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