Street Signs (and other textures)

[kalnethesis]

I have made custom billboards. They were cool.

 

That is where I got stuck. Weapons and guns, no problem, however, I haven't a clue how to use NifSkope, with The GECK and Photoshop in order to make new signs, posters and the alike, as these files contain multiple images in a hodgepodge and I do not know how to point toward them in order to wrap them around the wire frame (in the right place).

 

How do I set the coordinates of a texture so that it fits perfectly? A little help would go along way. I would like to make new street signs, posters and books, however, the texture files (dds) contain multiple images, letters, etc. and I haven't a clue how to pinpoint their relative location (or exact location) with Nifscope. Is their a tutorial on this?

 

Pardon my ignorance, I have never done this, so I haven't the vernacular, or even access to the lexicon of jargon available - in order to properly express my wishes. Basically. I need something for beginners.

 

I very computer literate, but somewhat out of my depth, pointing me in the right direction would be awesome!!

 

Thanks a million!

 

(by the way, this forum is awesome. seriously. great technology. this cannot be drupal. )

[october21]

Q: How do I set the coordinates of a texture so that it fits perfectly?

A: If it's a new model, you'd have to UV map it yourself. I've never had to do that myself, but there's plenty of tutorials out there, like From Blender to Fallout, etc. I'd list some, but a cursory search with a few choice key-words should return what you're looking for. And chances are the first one you find will have links to other tutorials, which will have links to other tutorials, etc etc etc.

 

Q:I would like to make new street signs, posters and books, however, the texture files (dds) contain multiple images, letters, etc. and I haven't a clue how to pinpoint their relative location (or exact location) with Nifscope. Is their a tutorial on this?

A: Not really sure what you mean by 'pinpointing their location' on this one, but, like I said, there's tutorials all over. In this statement though, it sounds like you just want to reskin existing models. If that's the case, you just open 'em up in Photoshop or GIMP or whatever you prefer, draw your pictures and then save them (with unique names, if they're non-replacing of course). Then you can either make a copy of the original mesh, rename it, and have it point to your new textures using nifskope, OR use the GECK to point to your new textures using the Texture Set feature. There may be even more ways to do it, but I find those to be easiest.

[kalnethesis]

Thanks.

 

UV mapping, I will look into.

 

What I mean by new street signs is this. The texture set for the street sign has all the letters of the alphabet and other characters as well. However, the street signs only indicate that they point to that one image. For instance, Wall St. isn't a texture with the letters "W A L L ST." but a texture file with every letter of the alphabet - from A to Z. Somewhere, the NIF points to parts of the DDS, and not the whole image. This is probably done with coordinates. But where are they, and how do I reset them, in order to change Wall St. to Somewhere Else Avenue?

 

Maybe UV mapping. Or whatever you were saying earlier? I will look into it. Again, thanks a lot! It must be hard to answer a question when the person doesn't know what they are asking for.

[october21]

Thanks.

 

UV mapping, I will look into.

 

What I mean by new street signs is this. The texture set for the street sign has all the letters of the alphabet and other characters as well. However, the street signs only indicate that they point to that one image. For instance, Wall St. isn't a texture with the letters "W A L L ST." but a texture file with every letter of the alphabet - from A to Z. Somewhere, the NIF points to parts of the DDS, and not the whole image. This is probably done with coordinates. But where are they, and how do I reset them, in order to change Wall St. to Somewhere Else Avenue?

 

Maybe UV mapping. Or whatever you were saying earlier? I will look into it. Again, thanks a lot! It must be hard to answer a question when the person doesn't know what they are asking for.

 

Wow, I had no idea the textures for signs worked that way. But since it does, it sounds an awful lot like UV mapping. I think that's what you mean by 'coordinates', so yeah the NIF would point to certain parts of it, and you'd probably have to UV the new texture yourself. And I've yet to learn the fine art of UV mapping, so I'm afraid I can't really help you there =(

 

But it sounds like you know what you're looking for now, so good luck and have fun! =D

[BadPenney]

If you are retexturing a sign that is already in Fallout, then you will not have to make a new UV map.

 

Many of the .dds textures for signs and posters are made to work with several NIFs. The NIFs are UV mapped to read different sections of the .dds. Many NIFs also refer to multiple .dds files. I normally find the sign that I want to retexture in the GECK to find out the name and directory location of its NIF and unpack it from the Fallout - Meshes.bsa. Then open the mesh in NifScope to find out the names and directory locations of any .dds files that are associated with it and unpack them from the Fallout - Textures.bsa. Then make sure that the textures' locations are recognized by Nifscope so that you can see the NIF rendered properly.

 

When you open the .dds image in PhotoShop, you can often tell what portion of the image is used by the NIF you are working with, especially if there is text involved. Overwritng that portion and saving the image should update its placement on the NIF quickly in NifScope. So you can adjust it if you are a little off. If you save your texture with a unique name then you will have to redirect the NIF to see its location with NifScope.

 

Once your texture file is complete, you can create a textureset with it in the GECK which you can associate with the NIF that is still packed in the .bsa and recognized by FO3. That will save you the trouble and memory required to pack a duplicate NIF.

 

Available tutorials should go into more detail on many of these things.

[Baelkin]

Indeed, it does look like the street sign models use UV mapping to designate what letters to show from the "alphabet" template.

 

For instance, if you look at the models in NifSkope, you'll notice that the main body of the sign has an amount of polygons floating on the surface of the body of the sign (ie. the main metal body) corresponding to the amount of letters displayed in-game. This basically means that each letter is represented by a quad polygon, which are then UV mapped separately onto the template. If you then look at the UV template also available in NifSkope, you'll notice that any sign which uses duplicate letters will have less quads showing on the part of the UV template where the letters are placed on the texture file - this is due to overlapping UV coordinates, where two quads basically map the same part of a texture file.

 

From the looks of it, this makes it a bit cumbersome making new signs as you have to actually make a new model for the sign rather than reuse the old ones, unless you can find a model with an equal amount of letters to your own with the relative same size. It's actually quite an ingenious use of UVs though, considering that instead of having a texture file for each sign you only have a single texture file, which is then reused on all the signs which makes it much easier to maintain in case one wanted to alter the font, sign background etc.

 

In any case, it seems like a pretty simple thing to make compared to "interactive" objects like weapons and armour though - all you need to do is modify the model in a 3d editor and add/subtract floating polygons to match the letters of the street name you want on the sign, UV map these new polygons based on the texture (If you are using Blender I figure it has a means to import a texture to use as a background when UVW unwrapping and I know 3ds Max has) and export the model from your editor correctly.

 

Once you have your new model, you should then be able to overwrite the NiTriShape of an existing sign with your own model and save it under a different name, after which you can make a new sign in the GECK using this new model which will then show the appropriate letters.

 

This might sound mighty complicated, but once you get the hang of it it's not that difficult - I think the worst part is learning how to use a 3d editor to make the new models and UVW unwrap them if you don't have any experience in that field.

[Riven1978]

Indeed, it does look like the street sign models use UV mapping to designate what letters to show from the "alphabet" template.

 

For instance, if you look at the models in NifSkope, you'll notice that the main body of the sign has an amount of polygons floating on the surface of the body of the sign (ie. the main metal body) corresponding to the amount of letters displayed in-game. This basically means that each letter is represented by a quad polygon, which are then UV mapped separately onto the template. If you then look at the UV template also available in NifSkope, you'll notice that any sign which uses duplicate letters will have less quads showing on the part of the UV template where the letters are placed on the texture file - this is due to overlapping UV coordinates, where two quads basically map the same part of a texture file.

 

From the looks of it, this makes it a bit cumbersome making new signs as you have to actually make a new model for the sign rather than reuse the old ones, unless you can find a model with an equal amount of letters to your own with the relative same size. It's actually quite an ingenious use of UVs though, considering that instead of having a texture file for each sign you only have a single texture file, which is then reused on all the signs which makes it much easier to maintain in case one wanted to alter the font, sign background etc.

 

In any case, it seems like a pretty simple thing to make compared to "interactive" objects like weapons and armour though - all you need to do is modify the model in a 3d editor and add/subtract floating polygons to match the letters of the street name you want on the sign, UV map these new polygons based on the texture (If you are using Blender I figure it has a means to import a texture to use as a background when UVW unwrapping and I know 3ds Max has) and export the model from your editor correctly.

 

Once you have your new model, you should then be able to overwrite the NiTriShape of an existing sign with your own model and save it under a different name, after which you can make a new sign in the GECK using this new model which will then show the appropriate letters.

 

This might sound mighty complicated, but once you get the hang of it it's not that difficult - I think the worst part is learning how to use a 3d editor to make the new models and UVW unwrap them if you don't have any experience in that field.

 

 

Hehe this would have been very useful info for me back when we were trying to get an ELM street sign, and the Camp Crystal Lake signs done for the Freddy mod >.<.... Oh well we have the signs now but i will just book mark this page for future reference :P Cheers