[LE] Pathfinding - How far must the shader extend?

[Lollia]

So I decided to do a check on some newly laid navmesh and ran the Pathfinding tool. Although the navmesh looks fine on its own, the Pathfinding tool is giving me pause.

Mine uses a purple tone for its path shader, and I'm seeing some instances of the purple not fully extending into certain triangles. I'm wondering if that makes a difference in the grand scheme of things--I want everything (especially the furniture markers) to function correctly.

I tried moving some nearby objects around, and even though these objects are outside of the navmesh's coverage area, moving them affects the Pathfinding shader, usually making it more expansive and extending its reach.

Maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing, but I would like to be sure before I go re-organizing the cell and tearing down my navmesh in an attempt to gain more coverage for the Pathfinding shader.

[NexBeth]

Normally a successful path is marked by a GREEN path-line that extends from the triangle you clicked initially and ending on the triangle that you clicked to end the test.  If the path fails, it is supposed to be yellow.  If the path is broken, then it should show that when you test as demonstrated here where test line ends at the problem nav:

Pathing Tests - the CreationKit Wiki (uesp.net)

[Lollia]

8 hours ago, NexBeth said:

Normally a successful path is marked by a GREEN path-line that extends from the triangle you clicked initially and ending on the triangle that you clicked to end the test.  If the path fails, it is supposed to be yellow.  If the path is broken, then it should show that when you test as demonstrated here where test line ends at the problem nav:

Pathing Tests - the CreationKit Wiki (uesp.net)

Thank you so much for posting that link! I was trying to find something with images showing what the pathing should look like, and now I can clearly see that what I had been looking at is completely wrong. It doesn't look anything like that at all! I will retrace my steps and figure out what's going on.

 

Edit: I'm so glad that kudos survived the purge. Thanks again!

Edited December 4, 2023 by Lollia

[Lollia]

Just an update to say that I figured out where I went wrong.

It turns out that I had been using the correct tool, it was just that my mouse was refusing to communicate my clicks on the triangles to make the pathing shader operate. The navmesh in the cell I'm working in is still a work in progress (I am decorating as I go), but it pleases me to say that most of my paths were green! I ended up sacrificing a chair and moving four other seats around to resolve one of the yellow paths, but so far it's not too bad!

[NexBeth]

It may be easier on you to finish your mod then navmesh.  Making navmesh one of the final things to do.  Otherwise, you may decide to make changes to your mod and have to unnecessarily redo navmeshing.  Also, pathfinding tests are generally unnecessary unless you want to test out an area where the pathing may be narrow or questionable.  You should be able to look at your finished work and see for yourself if there are any areas that are not linked but should be.

As you decorate hit your M key to show all markers.  Using this will tell you right off if you are going to have enough space for what you want to do, such arranging chairs.  Then no need to rethink this later on as you did with your furniture placement.

[chickmetalhead]

Hi! Sorry for jumping in here. This is more for NexBeth maybe, but might also be interesting to the OP if there is an answer to this question...

I am on LE in case that matters. Is there a way to set the default actor used when testing NavMesh pathing? For me, I would like to the default to be a standard human or mir character, so defaults would be:

 

I obviously can use Choose Actor to change to these settings I want to use each time I test, but it is a pain when doing a lot of path testing, especially since the CK won't allow you to change or adjust the NavMesh without closing the above dialogue. Or is there a better way of doing path testing??

Edited December 18, 2023 by chickmetalhead
fix typo

[NexBeth]

I know of no way to set default.  There isn't an option for that in the menu.  However, most adult NPCs are pretty much the same size in skyrim so it's not going to make a lot of difference.

I don't know what your project is but generally you shouldn't have to do that much pathfinding.  Only in areas that are rather narrow, such as a narrow passage, navmesh of tables/chairs, etc.  Of course, outdoors is bit more tricky since it's all too easy to have problems between cells.  You have to check paths between cells.

[chickmetalhead]

Thanks, I couldn't find anything either - but you never know until you ask. As for my/our project... lots of very narrow areas, exterior cells, water, etc. So a lot of path testing.

I think I hate doing NavMesh under water the most, especially when you have four cells meeting under water. LOL! One trick I learned for edge links... If you need to extend an edge, it is hard to get the vertex you need selected. What I now do is select the triangle on the side of the edge you want to extend, and drag it away a bit, and then select the vertex you want... and then hit Ctrl Z to undo the move of the triangle. But the vertex is still selected! So you can add the next triangle without messing up the existing edge. I hope that makes sense, but that little trick helps when you need it.

Also, one of the surprising things I have encountered working with large exterior areas, is that sometimes the CK decides not to show you everything as you move to an area a few cells away. I have learned that hitting F5 seems to "usually" refresh things so you can see everything in the new area again - and that can include the NavMesh itself. Nothing worse than NavMeshing an area you already have, and then as you move the camera the CK decides to rerfresh the area itself, showing you have been duplicating your work... or you just NavMeshed right through a mountain/cliff! Well, that is why I save often. But as this project has progressed I have learned a lot and it is going faster.

Edited December 19, 2023 by chickmetalhead

[NexBeth]

Be care with exterior navmesh.  You don't want to delete navmesh.  When I say that, a mere edit of existing navmesh can "delete it" or change it's name.  You need to check with XEDIT often.  Keep an eye on the navmesh IDs in the cell view menu.  If you are editing extensively then you can count on this needing attention.

[chickmetalhead]

I know what you mean. But what I am doing is all new NavMesh in a separate worldspace. So at least that deleted NavMesh issue is one thing I don't need to worry about.

Thanks for the info though, because what you are talking about IS critical. Too many modders and/or mod authors either don't know that or ignore it. I have had to fix that in mods more than once. It can be done, but it is a pain. Somebody else reading this thread might appreciate knowing it too, before they make that mistake.

For anyone else reading, cleaning your plugin with TES5Edit will point out when that happens, in addition to removing ITMs (identical to master records) that the Creation Kit can generate if you are not careful. So do that before publishing and even occasionally while working on your mod. Check the message log in TES5Edit to see all the things it found and removed before saving the plugin - but deleted NavMesh is NOT something it can clean - that has to be done manually.

Thanks NexBeth!