Oh the pain of testing mods!

[InDarkestNight]

I've an ultra long list of mods I want to try out, but I don't want them to ruin the experience of each other. I removed my survival mods years ago, for the sake of testing out various difficulty mods that even years later I haven't fully gone through. I also don't want to use any follower mods because I'm afraid they'll ruin my first experience of various quest mods. In particular is Sofia, who is infamous for talking over other npcs. She just can't be brought along if you plan to do a quest mod, or anything with voice acting, for the first time.

Now I'm contemplating starting a youtube channel about this game. I made a load order as minimal as possible; most of it is graphics mods. Only 4 or 5 mods actually add content. I don't know what content most of them have, and I've found conflicts already in testing. Three of them add in daedroths, so my one replacer can't be used. I also just found out that one of them has freaking quests in it. I thought it was just a dungeon mod! So now I can't take sofia with.

Now, I'm also questioning my graphics mods. I don't like experiencing a mod in a way that the mod author did not intend. Now, I'm thinking I need to remove my 100+ graphics and sound mods, and play only and only with the few I want to test (minus of course skyui and some stability mods). I'm also worried about leveled lists, because due to me switching to linux I have no way to merge them yet.

So, what will I be doing this playthrough? I'll be doing ONE MOD for the first time, and 2 others I've played with before. That's it. No graphics, no follower to make my playthrough a bit more refreshing nothing. This is going to be a rather boring playthrough.

Why must I suffer like this? I really need a faster way to test out mods, especially if I plan to talk about them on youtube. What, do I need to spend all day playing Skyrim? Do I have to just throw caution to the wind a play with mods without making sure nothing could go wrong? At least when I get to quest mods I can do them all in one playthrough (hopefully). Worse yet, for this playthrough, I have to get to at least level 60 to see all the creatures that could possibly spawn, and then I'd have to keep playing for quite a long time.

Testing mods sucks. If anyone makes videos about mods, how do you test and study them? I'm starting to understand why mod reviewers leave out so much info, such as the problems you could have.

This sucks and now I'm planning to make playing this game MY JOB. I dread the idea of this becoming my livelihood. I won't be able to enjoy it like before, and I'll have to play it even if I don't feel like it. I have to do full playthroughs even if I'm not enjoying them, all for money.

I'm getting my new computer parts soon too, but it'll probably be months if not years before I'm ready to start making recordings. Everything's just moving too damned fast, and I'm not fast enough to keep up.

If anyone has any advice, I would love to hear it. How can I possibly test out mods more quickly? How can I avoid spending months designing load orders? How can I possibly test all mods in isolation within a reasonable amount of time? Fevvy seems to be able to do complete playthroughs in really fast order. I don't know how he does it. Guess it literally spends his entire days playing this game over and over. Must be a real drag. Yeah, he makes it funny in his videos, but that's because of all the goofy sound effects and captions he adds. He clearly doesn't have those while he's grinding his enchanting for the upteenth time. I hate grinding my crafting skills. I've thought about just avoiding it and relying training up to rank 90, then after grinding to 95, use books for the last 5 points, or maybe skip the grinding and use the oghma infininium.

Sorry, I just have a lot on my chest over this. I miss skytest, and frostfall, but I don't see myself getting to play again with them anytime soon, especially if I plan to start recording myself. Who would watch someone wait out blizzards? Also, both mods would slow me down, so that clearly wouldn't help. Do skyrim youtubers even ever get to enjoy the game? The more I go into this, the more I question it. I need the money though, and I would love to see the type of videos I plan to do. Fml. I did try once to make some test characters, but I just found it too damned boring playing the game without mods, AND THREE TIMES FOR THREE DIFFERENT BUIILDS. Maybe I should make a nightblade so I can use combat, magic, and stealth. It'll still be ultra boring playing through the vanilla game all over again. Fml, fml to hell.

[anjenthedog]

Good lord man. Install mods one at a time and check thoroughly for issues before installing the next. You should know that by now!

That way, If a conflict erupts (which unfortunately is far from uncommon), you can just uninstall the last install, then either use a save made prior to the installation or clean up as necessary using fallrim and a save made after the offending mod is uninstalled. ( usually test by the first method as it takes less effort)

Then you can figure out what broke and if possible, fix it, or if not,  choose one or the other (if the conflict is simply between a pair, which is also a common theme)

How do I test? I read the mod description, watch showcase videos, and then I see if it

• produces what it claims to, on my machine,
• without compromising the integrity of my midgame install,
• its in game MCM is sensible and efficacious,
• installs without necessarily extraordinary efforts on my part in terms of installation and configuration vs "mod substance" (I'll go farther for a new-land or framework, than for a new shrub, follower, or character preset). if it fails on any of those counts, it gets bumped out of the load.

That's my default grunt pose. Were I testing an application (or game, or whatever) for a customer in a professional setting, I'd do what they asked me to do, and maybe exceed what they asked me to do., Been a long time since I was in that role though and doubtful if I'd ever subject myself to that sort of environment again.  

I both envy and pity YT showcasers. Their skills are generally way above mine, at least in terms of video editing and presentation,  (envy) and yet they spend inordinate amounts of time simply to make mods look as good as they can look (pity)

[InDarkestNight]

I just have too many damned mods to test one by one. I was doing that for a while, but I couldn't keep up with mods being added to the list. Also, I never install mods mid-playthrough anymore. If I install any mod, its before I start a new game. This means for each and every mod, I have to play from level 1 to an end game character. That obviously eats up a lot of time.

Also, I don't see any reason why I couldn't play with multiple quest mods installed. Its not like they're going to interfere with each other. Also, some mods are meant to work together (simonrim comes to mind, along with mods like campfire, frostfall, and last seed). On top of that, why can't I play with multiple equipment mods installed at once? What's wrong with having more than one armor mod installed?

My main problem is it just takes me so damned long to prepare for a playthrough. Its actually rare I get to play anymore. I spend most of my time just ironing out bugs FOR MONTHS ON END. I really need a faster way to do things.

Right now I am testing out 1 mod I've never played with before. The other two I have, though I got bored with the playthrough with one and just grinded my skills and then spawned in each dragon with console commands. The third one, Immersive Creatures, I've had installed so many times its starting to look normal to me. It just seems though that no matter how many playthroughs I do with it, I always run into something new. I think the mod is intended that way, which is sort of annoying. I keep finding that it adds an identical creature to another mod but with completely different stats, abilities, and models, because I just don't know what all it contains. Fml. Its taking me multiple playthroughs just to find what all SiC adds. How am I supposed to know? Its not like its listed on the mod page, and the pics on both versions don't really reveal much. In particular I've never seen a single pic, or video, or post that mentions it adds daedra to the game. I was going to play with a replacer for its daedroth (before I ran into that mod, I had no idea it even contained daedroths, seriously). However, when I looked it up in the console to summon one, I found all three of my mods add them to the game! And no, the model replacer only affected one. Fortunately, they seem to all use the same model so playing without the replacer doesn't matter too much. I can make my own replacer once I get my tools up and working again. For the time being though, I'm fed up getting things working on linux and I want to just game. I may not be able to merge leveled lists, or even know if I have a leveled list conflict, but at least I can sit back and play for a while.

[anjenthedog]

test as you go. IMO one shouldn't be flood installing anyway. It's a recipe for disaster, collections or no collections.

one by one, with a brief in-game test before moving on. If you have a listing of known "good boys" (infrastructure mods like UIExtensions, Better Dialog Controls or  texture sets, for instance, bulk install isn't so bad, but many mods just require a lot of massaging due to subtle contentions that often go un-mentioned befor ehand and are only revealed in the multitude of "it don't work" threads that result.

[InDarkestNight]

How do you even do a 'brief test'? Many of the mods I'm wanting to test spawns things throughout the leveled lists all the way up to 60. How can I get a good idea of what the mods do without doing a normal playthrough? I did grind my skills up and fight all the elemental dragons once, but I don't think I really gained much from that.

[anjenthedog]

obviously, not all mods fall into the category of "easy to test". Many most seem to though. in cases where they're going to be complicated, ime there are usually subtle or even overt notices in the requirements, description, and/or length/complexity of installation steps, as well as finding a lot of "can't get this mod to work" kinds of "user" posts, or even the existence of ancillary, third party patch mods.

Not to say I don't get your point. Idk, some mods you have to pay more attention and do more to make sure every nitty gritty is working. Can't help those. But "a lot of mods" becomes maybe a handful or even dozens, but not hundreds.

Almost every single instance of major game meltdown for me, (the kind that requires a lot of debugging and effort to put it back to working condition), has started after I was rushing installations without intermediary testing. "ooh, let's install this, looks shiny, ooh install that. Ooh, and they both need dependencies, gotta install those ... hey while I'm at it I'll install this other - unrelated but nifty - one too, and heck all of its addons too... it'll go MUCH faster this way man.... ... ...  oh F game is borked". And I even live in a glass house, since I still do it on occasion when I get careless and overconfident, but correct method is still correct method nonetheless. 

If I were going to use a mod specifically geared towards level 60 and above play, I might consider waiting to install it until I was at least near to my target level.

idk, play vanilla or invest some mental elbow grease to tailor your game. I still think that most mod installations require little more than proving the game and a save file (or new game) still correctly loads and there's *some evidence of a mod doing it's thing. It's a pita, yes, since loading games and saves is tedium personified, often taking several minutes each time. 

I'm not really interested in being an apostle of the Holy Church of Single Mod Installation, but it's principle's efficacy is proven every time I see another thread where someone complains their game is totally fecked, then they panic and totally reinstall the game, of course making the same gd mistakes they made last time and whining about how they're going to rage quit Skyrim unless someone plays the hero and spoon fixes their game waaaaa. (not that I'm suggesting this characterization applies to you at all.. I'm not, but I've seen hundreds and hundreds and hundreds over the past 4 years that do)

Bottom line, you will almost certainly save time in the long run by at least quickly checking the game in between mod installations, even if it seems like you're not because there's so much thumb twiddling while deployments take place and game loads occur..

BTW, this method predates gaming. 

in any case good luck. I get your frustrations, just trying to offer some "stoic" advise. Not every installation will allow easy testing to gain confidence it's working properly. c'est la vie

 

 

[InDarkestNight]

I don't have a high level character I could test with. Maybe it would make more sense for me to use a level 60 character to test he final dragons in Elemental Dragons, and a fresh one to test out the starting ones. I did try to make a set of saves of the same character but at 5 level intervals. However, I found the process painfully boring and tedious, and I had a hard time keeping my skills in line with each other. I could've fixed this with console commands, granted, but I wanted a more organic character rather than one where all their skills were exactly the same level.

If only there was a way I could make the vanilla game refreshing without using mods. How am I supposed to play to a high level doing the same quests for the upteenth time, fighting the same lame enemies, listening to the same inane dialogue over and over again. I have done unmodded playthroughs yes, but I never thought to back up the saves. Besides, the last one I did was rather broken; he wouldn't have been good to test with. He was practically indestructible and hit everything that wasn't resistant to frost like a truck. I have thought about doing a similar build though, but not using exploits or all three crafting skills, and using shock instead of frost.

That said, I have thought of a better test for my three creature mods. My build I chose wasn't 100% what I was planning for my Relic Hunter playthrough. I was actually wanting to save that and not play it twice. Thinking about defensive skills though, I thought that having summons and illusions would help the most. Maybe playing that stealth illusionist against these creatures would be the better test. Stealth, archery, conjuration, illusion, and maybe light armor and two-handed (I did play this once and quite enjoyed it, but my armor never got to a high level due to me doing vampire lord every time I lost stealth, and my melee weapon skills never got far either for the same reason). Guess I was wanting someone who could actually handle open combat without just transforming into something that could. What, should I just have gone werewolf every time I lost stealth? Honestly, it may have helped, at least at lower levels.

[anjenthedog]

Let's put it this way, why install an Ebony Warrior mod when you're nowhere near level 80? It seems a brain dead move to worry about an Ebony Warrior mod when you're nowhere near level 80 and likely won't' be for a long time, especially since he won't appear til you reach level 80, Kapiche?

[LilRedMonster]

My dude/ette/it/ster you have chosen the most painful and irritating way to get your feet wet with mods I could ever think of. 

Instead of nibbling crumbs and going in one mod at a time and then starting over and killing your brain and soul in the process...I highly suggest that you do the exact opposite of what your plan is and just go ALL IN. Get Nolvus... or if you feel comfortable with learning the easier than it seems at first process of Wabbajack, Get Vagabond or some other gigantic modlist and experience modding in all it's beautiful, already properly organized, sorted and listed (redundant, I know) glory.

From there, after playing and getting to tinker with said lists on your own to get them more to your own liking, you will learn at a MUCH faster pace what you like, what you dont, what works, what dosen't and what direction you will want your own personal list to go and grow in.

[LilRedMonster]

On 2/1/2024 at 8:08 PM, anjenthedog said:

obviously, not all mods fall into the category of "easy to test". Many most seem to though. in cases where they're going to be complicated, ime there are usually subtle or even overt notices in the requirements, description, and/or length/complexity of installation steps, as well as finding a lot of "can't get this mod to work" kinds of "user" posts, or even the existence of ancillary, third party patch mods.

Not to say I don't get your point. Idk, some mods you have to pay more attention and do more to make sure every nitty gritty is working. Can't help those. But "a lot of mods" becomes maybe a handful or even dozens, but not hundreds.

Almost every single instance of major game meltdown for me, (the kind that requires a lot of debugging and effort to put it back to working condition), has started after I was rushing installations without intermediary testing. "ooh, let's install this, looks shiny, ooh install that. Ooh, and they both need dependencies, gotta install those ... hey while I'm at it I'll install this other - unrelated but nifty - one too, and heck all of its addons too... it'll go MUCH faster this way man.... ... ...  oh F game is borked". And I even live in a glass house, since I still do it on occasion when I get careless and overconfident, but correct method is still correct method nonetheless. 

If I were going to use a mod specifically geared towards level 60 and above play, I might consider waiting to install it until I was at least near to my target level.

idk, play vanilla or invest some mental elbow grease to tailor your game. I still think that most mod installations require little more than proving the game and a save file (or new game) still correctly loads and there's *some evidence of a mod doing it's thing. It's a pita, yes, since loading games and saves is tedium personified, often taking several minutes each time. 

I'm not really interested in being an apostle of the Holy Church of Single Mod Installation, but it's principle's efficacy is proven every time I see another thread where someone complains their game is totally fecked, then they panic and totally reinstall the game, of course making the same gd mistakes they made last time and whining about how they're going to rage quit Skyrim unless someone plays the hero and spoon fixes their game waaaaa. (not that I'm suggesting this characterization applies to you at all.. I'm not, but I've seen hundreds and hundreds and hundreds over the past 4 years that do)

Bottom line, you will almost certainly save time in the long run by at least quickly checking the game in between mod installations, even if it seems like you're not because there's so much thumb twiddling while deployments take place and game loads occur..

BTW, this method predates gaming. 

in any case good luck. I get your frustrations, just trying to offer some "stoic" advise. Not every installation will allow easy testing to gain confidence it's working properly. c'est la vie

 

 

Or this. 1 mod at a time is hard af to do for impatient people such as myself and it is painful af to start over and over and over and over buuuuuuuuut fixing an issue that has just come up when you have installed 1 mod is an F-ton easier than figuring out what the hell is wrong with your game when you just impulse-downloaded hundreds of mod in a shopping spree because they all looked cool and felt like "they'd prolly work together".  Which is why I made the suggestion to start with one big/fully furnished modlist rather than frankensteining your own monster together by stacking individual mods or nexus collections together. 

My late wife got me into the modding world with her love of the souls games and I thought I could easily translate that into es games buuuuut ooooh F no.

Skyrim mod logic is on another level. 

Hell, your mods might not work now but maybe if your list was organized in a different order, they would.

Load list order organizing is an art-form that I daresay is juuuuuust below the actual creation of mods themselves.

so yeah... I think that you are maybe biting off more than what your eyes are telling you and your frustration fromwanting for this Shid to work for you is maybe hindering your learning process of the whole kejigger as a whole.