Why are creatures from mods always so strong?

[InDarkestNight]

Literally every mod I've ever installed that added new creatures (besides maybe Skytest) adds in creatures that are clearly far more powerful than the vanilla creatures. Its why I've never played very long with The Monster Mod, despite it interesting me. Even quest mods aren't any better. I have however noticed a pattern; all creatures added by mods have stats comparable to fighting a vanilla creature on master. Seriously.

Why does everyone seemingly without exception give their creatures stats that are so out of line with the vanilla game? They're all so op I've actually been seriously thinking about turning the game down to novice just so I can experience these.

Why do mod authors do this? Why does seemingly every creature mod suffer from balance issues? And to top it off, a lot of them have creatures that are so OP they can literally one-shot you and appear to be invincible (the flame lurkers from the monster mod come to mind, along with those hungers I ran into in Skyrim Underground).

I'm not used to playing on master. In fact, the highest I've ever played is on expert (though I've since gotten rather rusty). Do I need to turn the game down to novice so I stand a snow ball's chance in hell against these mods? Right now I'm actually thinking about playing a tank build (though mainly due to my latest experience trying to get a light-armor two-hander to work yet again, with of course disastrous results).

[InDarkestNight]

How are you even supposed to play against mods like this? I made a tank build. Heavy armor, block, one-handed. It was clearly superior to the stupid light armor build. Still, its not enough; I just go one-shot from full health by an enemy that was level 6. I had more perk points than usual too due to elemental dragons. I had literally every perk I could apply for, I was more powerful than is possible in the vanilla game, and still its not nearly enough.

What am I supposed to do? My attacks barely do anything to most of these enemies, and often times, NOTHING AT ALL (such as now, I hit that thing over a dozen times with an enchanted axe, and its hp didn't drop by one single point). Also, it doesn't matter how stacked I am; I get slaughtered by everything.

Why does every single creature mod do this? And what am I supposed to do about it? Its starting to look like this simply cannot be done. I mean, what am I supposed to do? I can dodge all I want, but there's no way in hell I can kill anything before it manages to one-shot me with a single hit. How is that fare??? Even legendary is easier than that creature!

What am I supposed to do??? What am I supposed to do>??? What am I supposed to do??? Freaking tell me. At least give me an explanation. For now, i see no reason to continue to play with these mods. Clearly the relic hunter challenge is impossible. Screw creature mods, screw this stupid mod that I've been trying DESPERATELY to complete for YEARS NOW. I'm not looking for an utterly merciless game. Screw all this. I'm going back to my old load orders at long last. Clearly nothing else is worth playing. Screw quest mods. Screw new lands mods. Screw anything that adds enemies to this game. Screw overhauls that wreak the balance. Screw spell mods. Screw most mods out there. The only reason hoenstly I keep playing this game is because I have none left. If I quit it, I have nothing, I'll never play another game again. I'm sick of just playing free cell. is that the only game I'm allowed to enjoy anymore????? Am I not allowed to relax and have fun? Modern comptuers are so utterly worthless. They're not nearly worth the freaking money anymore YOU'RE BETTER OFF BUYING SOMETHING FROM 30 YEARS AGO FOR $50 THAN ANYTHING MADE IN THE PAST 20 YEARS.

[anjenthedog]

There's one option when dealing with enemies that many players overlook. 

Run away from opponents who can kick your ... into pancake batter. Just run away till you've leveled enough and/or (I suppose mages don't usually armor much)  added armoring (clothing and or enchantments, potions, or other buffs) strong enough to fight them. (or just to catch your figurative breath so you can come back at them for another attack as soon as you gobble those sweet rolls or cast heals or whatever)

To save face, which seems to be the fundamental philosphy governing the logic of martial culture, call it retreat.

Or maybe get some followers to help, and then you can act as defacto "battle manager" (archer or battle mage) instead of up-close defacto melee tank.

[DrSeptimus]

Without knowing your entire modlist, it is hard to draw a proper conclusion.

If you get one shot too often, odds are you might have some mod that interfere with combat system.

For example, VioLens mod have Player Killmove Immunity. If you made player vulnerable to killmove and the odd to trigger it is high, you can easily one shot by enemies.

 

 

[InDarkestNight]

I have no combat mods. In fact, I went with as minimal of a load order as possible. The whole active load order is:

+AlternateConversationCamera LE
+Grid Transition CTD Fix (non-USLEEP)-1-0
+NVAC - New Vegas Anti Crash
+Improved Table Transition Animations LE by Xtudo
+Muffle The Nirnroot - Mute
+Glowing Mushroom Collision Fixes
+Scripts Carefully Reworked - AIO LE by Xtudo-1-1-
+Male Nord Hair 04 fix
+Violent Alduin v1_0 -Normal
+Elemental_Dragons
+Skyrim Immersive Creatures
+Violent Alduin Retexture
+Better Dialogue Controls
+MfgConsole
-Immersive HUD - iHUD
+SkyUI
+Skyrim Underground - esm
*DLC: HearthFires
*DLC: Dragonborn
*DLC: Dawnguard

I have nothing else that could be affecting enemies, and that's intentional. Why are some enemies so stupid OP? Why does Sic spawn a freaking level 30 spriggan giant right outside of the exit to Bleak Falls Barrow? Why do all the creatures in Skyrim Underground take over a dozen strikes to kill AT LEAST?

Also, my main problem is enemies I encounter along the road. What am I supposed to do about that? Stop heading to my destination and walk all the way back to where I started? Back out of a quest dungeon when I'm halfway through it? Also, how do I 'run' from enemies? Often times I find they're FASTER THAN ME. Of course, this run I'm wearing full heavy armor, so that slows me down and makes me run out of stamina quicker. Still, I wasn't able to flee much better with the light armor build who had slightly more stamina (I'm only level 6). Also, the damned things one-shot Lydia too! I did try to have her tank, but that accomplished absolutely nothing.

Literally everything I throw at these enemies isn't enough. I can barely damage them at best, they can take off a minimum of 1/3 to 1/2 my hp with a single hit despite my armor, and many of them can easily outrun me. Oh, and that enemy that keeps kicking my ass on the sides of the road is some 'vampire hybrid' thing that drops my stamina to nothing in seconds with that drain spell of hers. She also summons a gargoyle who has drain life on its claws which take off 1/3 of my hp. I burned through over 20 health potions, used all my stamina, even leveled during the fight, and I still got slaughtered. Again, what should I have done about that? Run all the way back to Whiterun and forget High Hrothgar until I somehow managed to get to level 30 grinding dungeons around Whiterun? Not that doing the helps much; the whiterun area loves to spawn these giant spiders that are just as broken.

Its like this mod makes my game unplayable. Even Mimulnir with Elemental Dragons installed was a joke compared to most of the creatures added by SiC and Underground (the mod adds a disarm shout to him btw, seriously). What the crap?

[TheVampireDante]

Well, partly because (in Skyrim's case at least) people have played the base game so much it's not a challenge anymore, so they mod in things to make it that little bit more of a struggle in attempts to regain that sense of danger they had when they first played. Get that "early game" kick back into it.

Others pretty to make their games extremely difficult since they enjoy that sort of experience (I suspect many in this group also play survival games like the long dark or green hell), and if they mod the game they tend to transfer that same level to their mods because it's their "normal". (I'm in this group myself).

If it's a real issue for your own playthroughs then perhaps looking for mods that make it easier to manage might be in order? Or learning enough to adjust the stats and levels on the mods you like but find make things harder for you?

[InDarkestNight]

I've long known about difficulty mods, they're not exactly obscure. I've never played with them though because I know I can't handle difficult games. There actually isn't too many games I've completed in my life, despite playing plenty. I never did complete oblivion for instance (outside of the Knights of the Nine expansion anyway). Keep in mind, even Freedom Planet, a game known for how easy it is, is too hard for me. Of course, I wasn't thinking that every mod would be like that. Not everyone is trying to turn their game into Dark Souls, or at least I thought.

That said, the closest thing to a 'difficulty' mod I did use long-term was Skytest Realistic Animals and Predators. Of course, honestly I wasn't playing it for the buffs to animals, I was playing it for the more realistic behavior it granted them. I didn't struggle against them though, and in fact I used to play on expert with that mod installed. The last time I tried that though the animals kept kicking my ass. That experience is why I often say I've gotten 'rusty'.

I can understand mods that add in tougher creatures, but why is every creature mod this? Honestly, it feels like I'm playing Oblivion again, a game I could never complete no matter what I tried. Not everyone is a pro, and I was never good and I'm getting close to 40 now. Why can't I enjoy creature mods with a difficulty that's more my level?

And yes, I know SiC comes with difficulty settings, which I have used in the past. I was wanting to play it with its default settings though. The times I did do a full playthrough with it, not only did I reduce its difficulty, but I also disabled all its spawns and removed more using a xEdit script. I pretty much removed all of its original creatures and just kept the variants. I wasn't too impressed by the thing. It felt like I was just playing with a variety expander. Of course, looking back that's mainly because of what I did to the mod. I didn't experience it fully, which is why I'm trying to now. Of course, that's not going too well. Not only can I not handle the buffed creatures from the mod, but I also can't handle all the solstheim creatures it adds to the map. I actually installed Skyrim Underground hoping it would give me an easier route through the rift so I wouldn't have to deal with those stupid riekling chargers. That hasn't turned out to be the case, though admittedly the creatures in that mod are moderately easier than SiC's. They're tanky yes, but not as much, but their damage is most of the time pathetic (minus those invulnerable hungers I ran into once that could one-shot me, funny enough before I found those I found a book from the mod warning about how dangerous they were, guess I should've taken that book as a warning from the mod author).

As I've said, maybe the relic hunter challenge simply isn't for me. I don't know if I could even complete the LotD mod alone. I have struggled against the creatures added by Moonpath to Elsweyr, which used to be incorporated into the mod prior to v5. I've done that quest mod multiple times though, but it doesn't mean I'm used to it. I have gotten my ass handed to me by these assassins I think added by LotD.

One thing I was doing though was playing with Higher Level Enemies. I mainly did that though because I was planning on making myself as op as possible, and didn't want the game to become a joke as a consequence. That didn't turn out well obviously. Now I'm thinking though, maybe I could install that again to vanilla creatures in line with the mod added ones, but turn the difficulty down so everything is vanilla? Yeah, I could just turn the difficulty down, but that would make the vanilla creatures a joke. Point is, maybe I could buff them so they don't become a joke if I turn the difficulty down just so I can deal with SiC's creatures? Playing novice would be weird, but it would functionally be like the vanilla game. I would assume any followers would be in the same boat as me if I did this too.

[dicere]

That's a good question and it doesn't only apply to animal mods, there are a ton of mods on nexus that increase the difficulty and challenge of the game, very few that are on par with vanilla gameplay.  Why is it so? I'm not really sure. Maybe mod authors just like a challenge, or are bored with the vanilla mechanics themselves so they want to change things up in their mods.

[anjenthedog]

Ok, I have a few solutions for you.

 

1) install proteus (not the only way but it makes it easy)

2) boost your magic, stamina, and health to a level that exceeds your game level

3) re-define your armor/clothing ratings to be more effective (higher ratings)

4) enchant the F out of everything.

Also...

5) consider using TIM generally, and TGM for really dicey situations. (shh... no one needs to know)

6) avoid unnecessary dangers at lower levels

7) practice your potion making skills and get the skill level mazxed as soon as possible, then create boatload of health potions and poison potions (and whatever else. hope you get my point).

8 ) git yersef one of those 'bags of carrying' or jewelry that ignores the laws of physics so you can carry boatloads of potions food etc.

9) don't install monster mods that produce world shattering opponents, and or use their MCMs to limit the levels of spawned creatures

[InDarkestNight]

Honestly, I've never explored alchemy much. The only time I ever level alchemy is for fortify smithing and enchanting potions (seriously). On my first playthrough I did invest in it to make a stupid amount of health potions, though I still kept running out. After my skill improved I didn't need that anymore; now without mods health potions stockpile in my inventory and weigh me down.

Also, I've never liked the crafting skills. None of them become useful until you spend half an hour just GRINDING. Also, they break the game. My way to nerf this was to simply not use them. Besides, this gave me an extra skill slot. Note how I didn't incorporate any crafting skill in this build (though I was thinking of investing in them, most likely enchanting or maybe smithing depending on my armor set) after I got everything else leveled just in case I didn't get to level 60.

In light of this experience, maybe I should learn to use crafting skills again. As I've said, I've never fully explored alchemy. Maybe I should do that. I don't really know what types of builds it synergizes with though. I'm thinking a mage honestly due to the fortify spell magnitude potions. Playing an unarmored character though I would guess wouldn't be too wise a decision (though having summons would surely help, except against the stupid OP things that can one-shot everything).

Edited February 1 by InDarkestNight