What is current best practice for Fallout 4 DDS texture formats ?

[SKKmods]

Having read 10 years worth of conflicting posts, articles and suggestions with no sensible outcome on DX this, BC that and Alpha other I am interested in the current best practise formats for:

Low poly inventory & world objects (e.g. MISC) at 512x512

High poly inventory art (e.g. mags/books) at 1024x1024

 

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UPDATE: SUMMARY RESULT OF THE THREAD

Fallout 4 as published with DirectX 11

Diffuse_d without Alpha BC1 DXT1

Diffuse_d with Alpha transparency BC3 DXT5

Normal_n  BC5 Linear (intel)

Specular_s  BC5 Linear (intel)

New:  BC7 (DirectX 11) offers very nearly the same quality as uncompressed while still being the same size as DXT5 compressed textures > but may not blend with existing base game objects <

 

 

[South8028]

for all sorts of rubbish... Magazines, books, etc... It is best to use a general uv with an offset. One 4k texture can accommodate 64-128 magazine and book covers. Accordingly, by shifting uv in increments of 0.125-0.25, you can select the texture. This is how I organize, for example, all cosmetics, all power tools, all books, all drinks.

https://disk.yandex.ru/d/Oj5zrPY4Ak2HIA

 

Edited May 9 by South8028

[SKKmods]

Organising files is not my question.

My ACTUAL question is which format for which map ?

[RoNin1971]

Depends on who you ask.

I'm sticking with DXT5/BC3 for most of my textures, as that's the same as most of the vanilla stuff uses (next to DXT1/BC1)

Where others are hellbent on using BC7. Being the newer / "better" option.

I rather stick to what the game uses.

For any Diffuse map without Alpha channel Fallout 4 uses BC1.

For diffuse with Alpha it uses BC3.

For normal & specular it uses BC5.

The biggest 'thing' being support for Alpha channels & memory usage. I found that it makes practically no difference when simply using DXT5/BC3 for everything.

[South8028]

 This is true. bgs published standards back in '17. In the article about the differences between Fo4 and Skyrim on Steam. The standard was declared as D - dxt1, dxt3, dxt5 nvidea. N,S - bs5 intel. As DiodeLadder noted earlier, Elrich has a dds converter with default formats. I use nvidea and intel texture works plugins. You can use bs7, no problem. And it would make sense... If bgs did at least something for their old shaders in the latest update.

[SKKmods]

Given that most folks (who matter) have 8Gb VRAM these days, standardising on BC7 for all maps is OK then ?

*EXCEPT* diffuse with alpha has caught me for textures with transparent sections (e.g. Paper_d.DDS) that will only work properly in BC3 DXT5 else the transparent sections are filled in black. 

ps Shout-out to niston for Textureinfo and Texturescan

 

[RoNin1971]

1 hour ago, SKKmods said:

Given that most folks (who matter) have 8Gb VRAM these days, standardising on BC7 for all maps is OK then ?

*EXCEPT* diffuse with alpha has caught me for textures with transparent sections (e.g. Paper_d.DDS) that will only work properly in BC3 DXT5 else the transparent sections are filled in black. 

ps Shout-out to niston for Textureinfo and Texturescan

 

That's quite the assumption.

I offer my greener wasteland textures in 4K, but until now, the 2K version has been downloaded a LOT. (even more in the past)

& BC7 doesn't use more memory ...

So, sure, you can use BC7 and it will work, most of the time. Still, you are mixing compression methods which will not go unnoticed (visually) while playing.

Unless you are planning to redo all textures and increase their quality, any (ultra) high quality 8K BC7 texture will stick out like a sore thumb (imho)

[SKKmods]

Looks like we are talking about totally differnet missions here.

My spec as stated at the top is for 512x512 and 1024x1024 books and misc objects, I never mentioned 4K or 8K or scenery.

[RoNin1971]

40 minutes ago, SKKmods said:

Looks like we are talking about totally differnet missions here.

My spec as stated at the top is for 512x512 and 1024x1024 books and misc objects, I never mentioned 4K or 8K or scenery.

Makes no difference.

Just trying to tell you that its not so clear cut that most folks actually want the higher quality (or even have the specs for it).

& that a ultra high quality book or misc. object, as part of the scenery, will stick out between the rest of the scenery (especially when being 100% vanilla, not even the HD textures)

 

but that aside, BC7 does not require any newer or faster or whatever hardware. (it even might be a bit faster) - it's just not what Fallout was build around using. But again, using it or not is what ever you prefer or value higher.

Personally I choose consistency with the existing stuff.

[DiodeLadder]

SKK, the best way really is to look at the differences between formats by just trying.  Once you look at what the textures look like in game, you have evidence to base your opinion on.

Personally, I use the exact Bethesda formats for most environment assets because I want my assets to blend in with Bethesda's in harmony.  Here's an example :

The kitchen stove/table, floor, wall, milk cans are my new assets.  Because I'm not replacing all the assets in the game and I would need to use them side by side with Bethesda's, I need my assets to pretty much look similar in feel.  That's my reasoning for using the Bethesda specs for those assets.

I do, however, use BC7 for clothing and weapons :

The pistol (my own 3d model) and the trench coat (Bethesda's model retextured) are in BC7.  My reasoning for using the modern format here is, often times in FO4, the environment is so noisy that the actors tend to not pop out against the backgrounds.  My consideration here is to make the actor easier to see by using the less noisy BC7 format.  The hat is a vanilla asset, and you can compare it against how the trench coat looks.

Anyway, I'd highly recommend just testing it and seeing for yourself.  All this format stuff may, or may not make a difference for you.