Ildari Sarothril and Ash Spawns lore

[FollowTheReaperMods]

There is a character who appears in Skyrim: Ildari Sarothril

She is a necromancer who created the ash spawns, apprentice of Neloth (House Telvanni chancellor)

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ildari_Sarothril

 

But it is not stated:

- When did she born/ became apprentice?

- Can she exist in Morrowind?

- WHEN she created the ash spawns? / Can ash spawns exist in Morrowind game? (Sure would be difficult before the Red Year, but probably possible.)

- Also: Is it possible that Dagoth Ur or his relatives also created ash spawns?

 

There are two relatives exist in Morrowind:

- Bethes Sarothril who is a witch hunter in Temple

- Saryn Sarothril who is in House Redoran (which is present the question: how does became Ildari Sarothril a member/ apprentice in House Telvanni, as by only 2members this not looks like a particularly large family)

[Dorfklaus]

My memory of the Skyrim DLCs isn't super clear so if anybody else knows better please jump in...

- UESP doesn't list any hard dates for Ildari and they're usually good at figuring those out.

- Heart Stone appeared (above ground) after the eruption of 4E5. At some point between 4E5 and 4E201 Neloth tries to put a Heart Stone into Ildari. So she could be easily be alive within Morrowind's time frame even without considering extended mer wizard life span!

- Ash Spawns are created by Heart Stone, the wizards only figure out how to conjure and control them (from what I remember...) Ash Spawn can exist in Morowind if Heart Stone exists. Now the question is: does it? Thematically Skyrim connects Ash Spawn to the destruction of Vvardenfell and the suffering of its inhabitants, it's possible that the Red Year in some way created Heart Stone instead of just displacing it to Solstheim. Or it was created by destroying the enchantments on Lorkhan's heart, its influence dissipating into the rock... and spreading? Or it could be pieces of Akulakhan, Corprus Meat and god dreams (I like that one).

Now this is mostly an narrative/aesthetic choice, there aren't hard answers to that (from what I remember). There could just be an motherlode of Heart Stone a random mine near/inside the Ghost Fence could hit if you think that's interesting enough.

- Dagoth Ur operates on dream logic and weird Lovecraftian imagery, anachronistic Dwemer craft and mythic circularity, I'm sure he could. Note that the Player can Command ash creatures; there is no lore reason why a Telvanni wizard couldn't (except that it's dangerous and unhealthy and will get the 6th House and eventually possibly all Dunmer factions on their case)

- In MW you often have people with the same last name in vastly different areas, Great Houses, social classes and so on. Maybe it's a common name (even if we only see 2) maybe her clan fractured into a Redoran+Temple and a Telvanni side

[FollowTheReaperMods]

6 hours ago, Dorfklaus said:

- UESP doesn't list any hard dates for Ildari and they're usually good at figuring those out.

- Heart Stone appeared (above ground) after the eruption of 4E5. At some point between 4E5 and 4E201 Neloth tries to put a Heart Stone into Ildari. So she could be easily be alive within Morrowind's time frame even without considering extended mer wizard life span!

 

Well based on this: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Dark_Elf

"Dark Elves live two to three times as long as humans; with a 200-year-old Dark Elf being old and a 300-year-old Dark Elf being very, very old."

Is there any concrete on how much extra life span granted for wizards? Other than the fact as Neloth who was already a middle aged/ powerful wizard chancellor in 3E427.

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The hearth stone put into Ildari in 4E181 so was half dead until the 4E201 as final death.

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As for the hearth stones lore just states: rocks which was around Lorkhan's Heart for very-very long time. But actually I liked your rpg minded insight:

Quote

it's possible that the Red Year in some way created Heart Stone instead of just displacing it to Solstheim. Or it was created by destroying the enchantments on Lorkhan's heart, its influence dissipating into the rock

 

But it seems that can fit into lore without problems that Dagoth Ur and Ash Vampires can create Ash Spawns far before the eruption/ their appearance after that as Dagoth relatives do rely on the power of the hearth anyway.

Edited December 25, 2024 by FollowTheReaperMods

[FollowTheReaperMods]

About age/ life span - after digging into lore deeply:

It seems that by lore magic by itself have minor role improving life span, probably a few years/ decades, but not something extraordinary.

Bretons regularly mentioned as an example of that regardless of their magical talents they do live considerably less time than Mer mages.

Quote

"You Bretons have a reputation for mystical aptitude, but I would argue that the cost of that success has been a lack of lasting impact on the greater magical community. I could find numerous instances of Mage So-And-So making a splash with war magics for a few decades, and then dying. Or a great divinator prognosticating portentous events, and then dying. Breton mages burn brightly but briefly, I suppose, a sad commentary on the lifespan your uncaring gods have gifted your people." — Divayth Fyr^[27]

It seems like needs the combination of extraordinary magic talent + elven blood line for:

Quote

Those extraordinarily gifted in magic or alchemy, or favored by the Gods, can endure for millennia with seemingly no ill effects

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mer

 

Which lead to the result:

Ildari Sarothril  not just can exist in 3E427 Morrowind - but possibly already hundreds of years old.

 

[Dorfklaus]

Life spans is one of the areas where Bethesda flies by the seat of their pants (and I don't mind). Check this thread by the inimitable ladynerevar! There is old lore talking about elves living around 1000 years and newer lore taking about 200-300 years... but the sources putting hard numbers on it aren't in the actual games. Divayth Fyr is 4000 years old if you believe everything his clones tell you.

Anyway: I think a mod adding some minions for the 6th House would be cool, and if it comes with a quest or two about an ambitious wizard that's even better.

Edited December 25, 2024 by Dorfklaus