This sites being really good for trans supports, LGBT+ etc. Don't start enshittification.

[acidzebra]

Thank you for your permission to have the last word, I will absolutely use it! Very gracious indeed. I shall try and use it wisely.

Okay so you saw things, me and the supporting data and several other people who have chimed in see other things, the ban thread tells its own clear story which does not appear to align with your views. I guess we'll agree to disagree there, I prefer my data-driven approach rather than your vibe-based one but that's just personal preference. I love that you keep insisting I "hate", the continued character assassination attempts are amusing. I realize I did give you permission earlier, I'm just glad you are taking full advantage of it. Anyway, yes, I do find bigots distasteful and sadly misguided, maybe you can frame that as "hate" if you really want (and you seem to really want that). Is it hateful to not want to be surrounded by hateful people in general and in specifically in a place that has clear rules in place to ward off hateful people? A question for the ages.

And thank you for quoting me, unfortunately you missed some crucial context, allow me to quote a larger section of my sentence:

Quote

It feels like some Gamers-with-a-capital-G in some seedy discord or subreddit somewhere to try and influence things by spamming the comment thread with concerted complaining about "leftist censorship", by which they mean "not tolerating racism and discrimination etc"

compare to your allegation (let me know if I failed to capture the right level of detail much like you did):

Quote

you pretend concerns about censorship always boil down to "not tolerating racism and discrimination etc"

Notice how "some" is not the same as "all", "they" refers to this specific group of people and not everyone, there was no statement or implication of "always". You just missed quoting these relevant details by a hair. Another honest mistake or misunderstanding I'm sure, they do seem to keep slipping in don't they. If you feel that definition was not restrictive enough or targeted too many people, agree to disagree, I've seen these alt-right gamer reddits. For further clarity because I feel like I'm talking to someone I can't trust on points of mutual understanding or even assumed good faith, I prepended the whole thing with "it feels like..." because I am aware I have no real supporting data or smoking gun, I don't have an alt-right reddit post or discord link I can point at and I don't care to dig one up but it was remarkable that a bunch of these zero-community-interaction accounts immediately jumped on the post to complain about their shared cause within minutes of each other. It could be coincidence, it could be coordinated, hell maybe it was the spontaneous eruption of real and pressing concerns of a portion of the poor oppressed gamer community regarding their freedom to say slurs online, I can't really know either way and ultimately it doesn't matter. Yes, I do find it distasteful to immediately go "okay what about my freedom to say slurs" on a goodbye post instead of thanking the guy for his efforts for the mod community over the years and wishing him well with whatever he's up to next given that there's an infinity of other threads and avenues to voice your concerns. Maybe my expectations are too high, maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I don't think that equates to "every breath they take must be villainous, the ultimate scandal." unless you're really into Shakespearean drama (which is good stuff, but maybe not in a regular conversation).

Thank you for your suggestion about the why of mod removals, but I've already said that mistakes will happen, and that given what we see in the ban thread my position remains that it's a negligible amount and no large flood of counter-examples have been forthcoming. In fact, none have been and requests for data have been met with derision. So my position is not so much "not open to it" but more "I don't accept handwavy statements from someone who has repeatedly shown to be more than willing to misrepresent what me and other people have said and who appears to ignore my earlier points regarding the same matter". I remain fully open to actual data though.

On to the last point, the supposed effect or not of hateful mods (and the audience and comments they attract and how the whole of that negatively impacts a community). Your amusing hyperbole aside (you really love those, it's great), normalizing hate is never a good thing. I've explained this earlier and really I'd expect someone who is so eager to throw the word "hate" around to understand this perfectly, either way I don't feel the need to repeat myself, refer to my earlier post. Videogames do not exist in a vacuum. Culture is a continuum and rot in one place spreads to other places. I guess we'll chalk that one up to "agree to disagree" as well. I have zero interest in discussing my personal life with you or what harm I've seen or not, but you'll be happy to know I'm also highly active in various other on- and offline spaces, I agree just sitting around on the internet and chatting isn't going to improve the world. But rest assured, I only punch people wearing actual swastikas to eliminate the possibility of the accidental harm to innocents which worries you so. I wish more of the stealth haters were open like these people, all the hiding of true intentions and pretending to be something they are not is quite tiresome and probably a leading cause of the regrettable mistakes you are fond of bringing up (without data or at least while ignoring the 100s of bans with cause). But I guess on some level they are smart enough to know their opinions are awful and not acceptable. I just wish they were smart enough to, you know, stop having awful opinions based on crap data and outright lies.

[showler]

I think one of the issues is that some people have a different view of what constitutes a "harmful mod" than others (and Nexus Mods).  There is a common complaint that mods that remove minority characters are removed while ones that remove majority characters are not.  This cry of "unfair" ignores a few hundred years of history and the realities of representation in modern media.

And as much as they hate this as a given reason in this argument the simple fact is:  No one's opinion matters except for the owners of Nexus Mods.

[DoctaSax]

13 hours ago, showler said:

I think one of the issues is that some people have a different view of what constitutes a "harmful mod" than others (and Nexus Mods).  There is a common complaint that mods that remove minority characters are removed while ones that remove majority characters are not.  This cry of "unfair" ignores a few hundred years of history and the realities of representation in modern media.

It also ignores the way some of those mods were described/advertised by their makers/uploaders. I suppose there may be valid reasons for modding a character's race from black to white, but callling it a 'fix' make the dev's choice of race an error and the mod's choice of race the right one. Saying that your mod "removes Netflix-like characters" from a game when it removes black and gay ones positions your mod in the ongoing culture wars as a bastion of white straightness. With descriptions like that, none of those mods are as innocent and optional as people pretend they are. They don't present aesthetic or gameplay choices, but political ones.