Making an actual realitic weapon mod

[FlankerDFR]

Like I mentioned in my last post...........................this stuff is all subjective in the end. If you want to mod your P416 to model the HK 416 rather than a standard M4.....................go for it. I've modded my PKM's in game performance to mimic an M60E4/E6. Can't do anything about the in game weapon model but it's been fun. The same goes for what I said earlier about modding various weapons ballistics to different calibers (than the stated vanilla game calibers).

 

You're correct about the two recoil parameter lines, the differences between a flash suppressor/compensator (aka muzzle brake), and the generalized affect of weapon weight on muzzle climb vs sway.

 

The P416/M4 recoil numbers I listed in my last post provide in game recoil that's less than either of the real life M4s I carried. And, I have no complaints about the recoil on either of those..............very easy shooting rifles!

 

I don't believe there's a way to accurately model in game weapon recoil based on how many rounds are left in the magazine. That would be some sort of sliding arithmetic, or logrithmatic scale which the game engine appears incapable of modeling. As the in game recoil parameters are set numerical values; if you really want to try this.....................I'd pick a maximum/mag empty numerical recoil value, and a minimum/mag full numerical recoil value...............then pick the average of the two and set that as my compromise value.

 

I have never noticed any increase in weapon recoil, due to decreasing weight from expended ammo, with any weapon I've ever shot. What you say about it makes sense; I've just never noticed it. I can see where it might be a factor with the belt feds, as the amount of ammo/belt weight they carry is a lot more than any of the mag fed weapons. The only belt fed I've shot to any degree from an off hand (standing) position is the M249 SAW. That was with the 200 rd hard pack; and I don't recall feeling any increase in recoil as the weapon became lighter over the course of the 200 rounds. All my M240 and 90% of my PKM experiences were prone on the bipod (makes a HUGE freakin' difference in accuracy and stability).

 

Another issue with what you say about buttstocks, flash suppressors/muzzle brakes, and sound suppressors is if you want maximum in game weapon modeling accuracy......................you'd need to get back into the game files every time you played..........................based on whatever weapon/specific configuration you were going to play with. Too much work for me..................I'm more than satisfied to pick a number for any given parameter and live with it.

[Nolanoth]

An AR-15 with a weight of around 7.191 lbs and a A2 attachment would have around:

 

<field name="fLeftRecoilPerShot" type="Float32">0.2789</field>
<field name="fRightRecoilPerShot" type="Float32">0.2789</field>

<field name="fVerticalRecoilPerShot" type="Float32">0.7342</field>

<field name="fLeftRollPerShot" type="Float32">0.2789</field>

<field name="fRightRollPerShot" type="Float32">0.2789</field>

 

(sway for iron sights - while standing)

<field name="fWeaponSwayHSizeMultiplier" type="Float32">0.1941</field>
<field name="fWeaponSwayVSizeMultiplier" type="Float32">0.4314</field>
<field name="fWeaponSwayHSpeedMultiplier" type="Float32">0.2135</field>
<field name="fWeaponSwayVSpeedMultiplier" type="Float32">0.4745</field>

 

I haven't figured out how to do the rest of the sway yet and I gave the A2 a very generous recoil reduction %. So it still might not be spot on, but closer to what you experienced.

 

Speaking of sway I would really like to know how you feel about sway and recoil when crouched? How different it is for you when your when your aim down the sights while:

 

A) Walking normally.

 

B) Crouching and moving at the same time.

 

Personally I find standing more comfortable and effective then crouching in general. Especially when I plan on shooting on the move. How about you?

 

And your right. I don't see any part of the code I could use to influence sway and accuracy as ammo depletes. So I'll just have to compromise.

 

Well there is a very tiny difference between recoil and sway between a rifle with just 1 round and 30 rounds. The mag has most of the added weight (usually) and not the bullets. It's about 2% difference, but I'm trying to be as accurate as I possibly can. That's why you haven't really noticed it. Also shooting any support weapon in a prone position and using a bipod or tripod does make a huge difference. You'd have to be standing to feel the difference. The heavier the weapon - the less recoil you feel. Remember that M16 youtube vid from the 1st post? The added muzzle device and weight basically almost eliminated all the recoil and the added grenade launcher makes the front so heavy muzzle climb was almost fully eliminated.

 

You know... I always wanted more realism in these games. I hate what Battlefield 3 and 4 did and just how inaccurate these games are. I don't wanna run around for 30+ minutes looking for a group of enemies in games like ARMA. Everything there is fairly accurate, but could still use some tweaking here and there, but waiting so long and just running and looking for a decent fight kills all of the joy. I want an arcade style game with realistic weapons and weapon behavior. When ever I see a battle rifle going up up and away I wanna vomit! Ye these rifles will always kick harder then assault rifles "BUT" when you have a really good stock giving that solid 70-71% recoil reduction and effective muzzle devices - then the difference is not as huge as it used to be. Enough is enough. I want to finally play a game with enough realism for me. At least every once in a while.

[FlankerDFR]

I have never shot anything from a crouched position! Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of games that have your character doing that; as it is inherently unstable........I'd rather stand and shoot. If you were silly enough to try crouching and shooting (stationary or moving) I'd guess the sway would be horrendous and recoil management would be difficult! I've shot extensively from standing, kneeling, and prone as most government qualification courses require those (and they're natural stances in any event).

 

One of the organizations I was with; had an ERT (SWAT to most people); as we did forced entry, building and room clearing there was a fair chance you might get surprised and knocked on your *** by an opponent..................so we practiced shooting at silhouette targets with our pistols from prone; laying on our backs and sides. Nothing you'd do if you were stalking pirate scum 'n such in the bush! LOL!

 

Another time; I was in a large scale "incident" and I was shooting the R700 of all things (Remington 700 BDL with a Weaver K4 scope chambered in 30.06). I was about 70-80 feet up an a building roof, and as there was minimal risk of return fire, and no need for concealment/cover......................I sat in a metal folding chair, with my feet on the building roof parapet and my elbows braced on my knees. Definitely the most comfortable shooting position I've ever used! Again nothing you'd do if you were righting wrongs on a tropical island.

 

Go with whatever you think is right for sway and recoil.........................consistent systemically from weapon to weapon (i.e. rifle to rifle and pistol to pistol, etc). A LARGE part of those are the shooter, not the weapon. Skill and proper stance (definitely not crouched!) are a larger part of the equation than the weapon itself. There's no way to model skill and stance in game so it's up to the Devs/modders to pick a numbers modeling system and apply it consistently across all the game weapons.

 

You're the Boss! If you like it, and you're using it consistently for all your weapons...................it's right!

 

 

[Nolanoth]

I see, but I'd still like to hear "your" personal opinion, since you have more experience.

 

Well I made some progress, but a few things still bother me. I believe I have proper range on the weapons. With minimal adjustments to the scope an AK-74 would have around 264m range and the Sig/HK 231m... assuming the weather is really good, but there's no violent weather/wind and bullet drop in Far Cry 3. It can't be implemented either can it?

 

Anyway I ran in to a problem. The hit points on the pirates, mercenaries and animals are either too high or too low. I want to boost the HP on enemies with body armor, so that they would go down after 4-6 assault rifle rounds. While heavy hmm even up 12-18 perhaps. A lot of body armors these days can take a beating.

 

 

 

Even from an AK-47 point blank.

 

5.54 would seem to have the most penetration though.

 

 

In short - how to adjust HP and body armor on enemies including animals?

 

To be honest with you I want to make the body armor basically mandatory for firefights. A silly pirate with no body armor will go down with 1 shot 5.45 , 2 shots 5.56 and .45ACP, 9mm 3 shots etc. etc. but the armored guys will be a problem.

 

Also if HP is adjustable, then is body armor on enemies adjustable as well?

 

What is:

 

fPiercingMultiplier (bullet penetration?)

 

fGroupingFactor (additional accuracy - bullet grouping?)

 

fBloodBulletMaxDist (the distance at which the target will bleed from a shot?)

 

This thread could use some more modders... it's like no one else wants to look in here because of the typo.

 

And how to adjust hip fire? I want to make the cone tighter and more controllable for those close encounters. Right now with the mods I'm modding lol most of the shots end up being scattered everywhere just not the enemy who's 2m in front of me.

 

Ah I've almost forgot! How do you calculate the drop in power/effectiveness of a round? Let's say a 5.56 was shot from an AR-15 11.5inch barrel. How much killing power would it have lost at 100 and then 200meters?

Edited February 10, 2014 by Nolanoth

[FlankerDFR]

As I mentioned in a previous post I modded the individual enemy NPC classes vulnerability to piercing via:

 

...........entitylibrary/FC3_NPC/Merc/whatever pirate or merc class you want to adjust. Search for:

 

CFCXCountersComponentAI which is about 2/3 of the way down in the file. There are individual numerical value piercing modifiers for heads, torsos, and limbs. 1 = 100% piercing capability of whatever round you're firing. Editing the numerical value to .5 reduces the piercing capability of your round to 50 % and so forth.

 

I have not modded the fPiercingMultiplier command parameter at all.

 

I guesstimate all in game armor performance based on standard US NIJ ratings for body armor (which you can easily look up online if you're not familiar with them).

 

High end armor plates and/or plates combined with Kevlar is NIJ Level IV (withstands .22 and .30 caliber armor piercing rounds). Level IV plates come in multiple flavors from 1-2 hit plates up to 4-6 hit plates (the ratings assume at least 1 in spacing between each impact). The pirates are unarmored with the exception of the defenders and heavys (maybe the snipers too, can't remember if I adjust them or not). Looking at it in game; it's makeshift armor that would be weak by store bought armor standards. For the mercs..................I figured a baseline of Level III armor vests for the assaulter and berserker classes.

 

The heavyies are a little trickier as I'm not familiar with EOD suit (and the bleep the pirate heavies is wearing isn't really an EOD suit......more makeshift crap) ballistic tolerance ratings. The real life suits (similar in appearance to what the merc heavies are wearing) are more blast wave than ballistic projectile tolerant (though they apparently do protect well against blast fragmentation to a point).

 

The key thing for me with either heavy suit is the helmets are by far the weakest points; in fact the pirate heavy appears to be wearing a welders helmet..............no ballistic protection at all.

 

I have not modded the fGrouping Factor command line.......................I haven't noticed any grouping issues with any weapon at any range. I haven't been concerned with the 30 Days Mod (ver CDF) hip fire grouping as my personal experience with any moving fire (other than walking straight ahead) is it's the best possible way to miss (hopefully the other guy is doing it too!!!). What I'm saying is whether Pandora x357 left hip fire at vanilla levels, or adjusted it to what he thought is correct...................I'm satisfied with it, and have not adjusted it at all.

 

Ballistic drop off parameters in FC3 is crude at best. They're in the .............entitylibrary/WeaponProperties/FC3/whatever weapon you want to mod files.

 

I previously posted the lines to mod in my 2/3/14 0630 post. Please refer to that, and a more fuller explanation of this is by Inarkin on page 162 of the Ubisoft/FarCry3 forum.....................about halfway down.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nolanoth]

Found the piercing modifiers, but where are the ones for the animals? I have looked for them literally everywhere and what about standard hit points? The enemies have to have some hit points right? Like if a rifle causes 100 damage, then how much of that damage can a pirate take?

 

I also know about body armor protection levels. You can even shoot a heavy ingame in the back of the head since the armor there is exposed and a shot will fully penetrate and instant kill. I'm also not sure how much a wielding mask would withstand, but if it was properly reinforced I'd say it could even take a few .45ACP hits.

 

There are a lot of folders out there with additional weapon behavior stats out there - try entitylibrary/Curves/ShootingSystem

 

You even have a BulletFalloffCurve

 

Btw where is the stuff responsible for hip fire anyway? I can't seem to find it at all.

 

Ah... no entitylibrary/WeaponProperties/FC3/whatever weapon is not where ballistic data is stored. It only shows range of the weapon like if you set it to 200 that's where the bullet will suddenly vanish - not drop! Just "poof" it's gone. And how much damage will be lost after a certain range. Damage drop is not bullet drop, but I was also asking you how are you personally calculating a damage drop?

 

If the maximum range (not effective range, just maximum range) of a bullet is around 1321m how much damage would it have lost at 265m? Around 20%? Because that's just how far a 5.45 can go. I'm not saying it's gonna be accurate at that range - just the distance before it hits the ground.

 

I remembered that post of yours and I just don't see any bullet drop. I see damage drop + max range before the vanishing. That's about it.

 

What I want is to do - adjust weapons in such a way the bullet would drop after like 100m. Maybe it's in BulletFalloffCurve or DistanceAccuracy, but I just don't know. There's even a file called DistanceAccuracy_AK47. Some stats have to be there responsible for bullet behavior.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Nolanoth

[FlankerDFR]

I remember reading a series of posts by a couple of mod creators at Ubisoft/FC3 forums on bullet drop; the end result was there is no bullet drop factor in FC3.......................the bullets fly straight as a laser (that's what they said). Near as I can tell in game that is correct.

 

I calculated my damage drops by guesstimation. If you searched online, there is probably a site somewhere (likely cartridge manufacturer,or loading enthusiast site) that has measured velocity and energy falloff charts for various caibers/bullet weights. The range/damage drop off command lines I referred to in my last post (on page 1 of this thread) is my AK47. I've set it for 100% power at 1m and dropped it to 50% power at 200m, and 10% power at 500 m (not even sure if you can see clearly at that range in game (due to in game maximum LOD draw distance). As you can see I only used two of the available three sets oc command line parameters (that's the way Inarkin listed his example in the Ubisoft/FC3 forum on pg 162). It'd be easy enough to use all three command line sets if you wanted a more graduated power drop off. Power factors at a given range obviously vary from cartridge/bullet to cartridge/bullet; like I said.................I guessed mine. The way I play, with in game LOD draw distances (they're all at max settings @ 1920 x 1080 on my rig) 90 +% of my shots are less than 100m anyway...............so that's really the critical distance for my damage falloff modeling (however right or wrong it might be!).

 

I've never looked for health values for enemy NPCs (human or animal). The next time I'm into the files, I'll try to remember to look out for those.

[Nolanoth]

Well according to BulletFalloffCurve there should be some drop... but... perhaps it wasn't fully implemented? Or it was implemented in such a way the bullets would be like a laser sine they where trying to save time and move on to Blood Dragon? The mechanics are definitely there like arrows. Those are affected.

 

I also tried tinkering with hip fire:

            <object name="HipFire">
              <field name="fMinDistForInfluence" type="Float32">0</field>
              <field name="fMinDistForMaxInfluence" type="Float32">3</field>
              <field name="fMaxDistForMaxInfluence" type="Float32">10</field>
              <field name="fMaxDistForInfluence" type="Float32">20</field>
            </object>

Set all those to 0... no effect.

 

Any idea what could tighten the hip fire? I just want a decent CQ spray at point blank. Last time I've tried shooting some guy with a moded (not by me) file. The round ended up on the sealing.

 

Wait... so... what's the max view distance for enemies? Like 200? You can still get a fairly straight trajectory for that with any ingame rifle. Even a pistol. Just look at this guy:

 

 

Crazy range for a .45 to actually hit. Yet I guess the force would be anemic. Elmer Keith sights method xD

 

Oh! I think I made some progress. Try checking this. The HP on every enemy should be equal to 100. The only difference could be the penetration resistance. I'm not 100% sure. I've only set the AK-74 to have 100 damage per shot 1.5 head (1 shot kill), 1.0 torso (1 shot kill) and 0.75 limbs (2 shot kill). Still nothing on the animals though. They have to have some stat. I'm tired of shooting tigers in the head with a SVD and not getting a kill. I should even take them out with a single torso hit.

 

And of course something already went wrong... the melee pirates seem to have more HP. I have to hit them with at least 2 shots to the chest instead of one.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Nolanoth

[FlankerDFR]

Well.......................in real life..................hip fire is an excellent technique to ensure the other guy lives long enough to kill you, or get away! LOL! Even at 25 m on the range I was really inaccurate doing it (better on semi auto than FA), at longer ranges I was even worse!

 

Now in building/room clearing (CQB), depending on the situation.....................point and shoot (look over but not though the sights........and not really the hip fire thing you're talking about) would certainly be an option in my book. Never had an instructor that advocated that method; let alone taught it to us (excepting 5 -7 m pistol targets---obviously at the aforementioned CQB ranges). I've done it on the range with pistol and rifle and am pretty good at it at 15 m or less (easy to see the holes in the target and adjust-----bet it'd be A LOT different if they were shooting back!!).

 

No ideas on tightening the in game hip fire....................other than looking at the hip fire perk files; which are in ..............patch/generated/nomadobjecttemplates/BonusService.

 

BonusService is the file that contains all your XP perks (in game tattau abilities). Each one of the hip fire perks is for specific weapon classes............................so if you can adjust a value in one of the files you'll tighten (or loosen) hip fire values in several weapon classes at once, and to the same value. Pretty much a sledge hammer, and not a weapon specific technique.

 

Enemy view distance????? Just looked at my in game video options (both categories), and I didn't see anything for LOD, or draw distance. I'm gonna guess with our characters eyeball, and the unmagnified sights .......................100m; maybe a bit more????

 

Most pistol courses I've shot had us bust off 2-4 rounds at a silhouette at 50m; everything else was closer. I've seen demos with guys shooting 9 mm pistols and such at silhouettes at 100 m and getting reliable body hits. Pretty iffy in real life, not the least of which is residual energy at that range. .44 Mag and up would be OK at those ranges (assuming a longer barreled revolver/pistol [like the .44 Hunter) to give full powder burn capability. Still pretty iffy compared to a rifle round...............especially against any body armor. There's a reason pretty much everyone issues their police/military a pistol somewhere between a 9m and 45. It's a combo of firepower, mag capacity, rapid multi shot capability, and pistol size/weight. The larger calibers kick A on the first factor, and fall flat on all the others. Guess we'll have to wait until some genius comes up with a for real pistol rail gun.....................so we can all be pistol packin' bad *****!

 

I didn't notice any health values back when I was looking for them for animals either. :sad:

[Nolanoth]

I just think that sometimes you have to pull that trigger even without aiming, since that choice can save your life especially up close when some guy is trying to ram a machete right in your face.

 

Oh man I was modding the wrong pirates. I've just noticed that I should have been taking care of both beheaders and chargers. The same class with 2 different names. I was going berserk with this stuff since I got a meeting this weekend and I've done all kind of weird things with the game. Thought I could finish modding before I depart.

 

I meant player view distance. If you can view to 200 meters and that's the limit then there's barely any point in having bullet drop anyway.

 

About the animals. There seems to be a way, but it's tricky. I was thinking you have to boost piercing resistances of all human NPC's. Like if a gun causes normally 100 damage. Just up it to 300 and set all current piercing values on pirate and mercs to -66% of their current values. 300 - 66% = 102 for humans, but for an animals it will be still 300.