Charisma, the way it should have been

[Skree000]

Charisma points should give the player Facegen "points" with which the player uses to either move facegen sliders or click the generate random face button.

 

 

You can move any slider 20 times (or any combo of sliders a total of 20 clicks) and that would cost 1 point worth of Charisma. Also, clicking Random Face 3 times costs 1 point of Charisma.

 

So with Charisma set to 10, player can move any slider 200 times, -OR- move any slider 140 times and click Random Face gen 9 times, etc.

 

Basically this will force players to think about Charisma. Do they want an ugly character but be really skilled? If so, youll have to live with what you are born with, and just take what you are given.

 

If you WANT to really choose your face and be picky, you have to invest in Charisma and sacrifice other things.

 

You cant have it all....

[VerbalEarthworm]

why stop there?

 

with an "Intelligence, the way it should have been" idea,

 

everyone using the "Low-Int-Ftw" character-build has to decide wether their character knows which end of the weapon to grip or not...

[5ivexxxxx]

Actually, the 'Intelligence the way it should have been' would be quite easy to make. The dialogue, at least. Just add conditions that check the player's intelligence. I think in Fallout 1/2 3 or less made you a moron, so there's something to go by.

 

As for non dialogue, I guess someone could make a script for things like disarming the Megaton Nuke- there is a random chance that, if you have 3 or less intelligence, you might accidentally rig the bomb to explode.

 

This also allows for improved perks, like an idiot-savant perk: Despite your low intelligence, you are really proficient with one skill, or something like that.

 

This also requires a flip side - smart characters should get their own improvements and whatnot. Overall, this "XXXXXX as it should have been" is a pretty good idea!

[MoreDread292]

its an interesting idea but it doesn't make much sense to me.

 

charisma in no way means you're looking good...

 

an ugly person can be more charismatic than a good looking one.

 

charisma does not describe someones looks, but their character

 

wiki says:

 

"The word charisma (Greek "kharisma," meaning "gift," "of/from/favored by God/the divine") refers to a trait found in persons whose personalities are characterized by a personal charm and magnetism (attractiveness), along with innate and powerfully sophisticated abilities of interpersonal communication and persuasion. One who is charismatic is said to be capable of using their personal being, rather than just speech or logic alone, to interface with other human beings in a personal and direct manner, and effectively communicate an argument or concept to them.

 

Although difficult or even impossible to define accurately (due to an abundance of wildly diverse criteria in regard to the trait), charisma is often used to describe an elusive, even undefinable personality trait that often includes the seemingly 'supernatural' or uncanny ability to lead, charm, persuade, inspire, and/or influence people. It refers especially to a quality in certain people who easily draw the attention and admiration (or even hatred if the application of such charisma is perceived to be negative) of others due to a 'magnetic' quality of personality and/or appearance. Related terms and phrases include: grace, exuberance, equanimity, mystique, positive energy, joie de vivre, extreme charm, personal magnetism, personal appeal, "electricity," and allure, among many others[1]. Usually many of these specific qualities must be present within a single individual for the person to be considered highly charismatic by the public and their peers."

 

obviously good looks would help with most of these things but it doesnt work the other way round.. beeing charismatic doesnt change your physical appearance.

 

but i love the idea of adding new roleplay oriented meaning to the attributes and skills.

 

theres no way for the game to tell if you're looking good or ugly...

there actually are scientific studies about what kind of facial proportions

we consider to be good looking...

and it might actually be possible to integrate a system that 'recognizes beauty' depending on how

the sliders are set. (ex.: with ideal proportions on the base head mesh... any changes made to it would decrease the 'beauty factor' accordingly)

 

another way to make beauty matter would be to simply give you the choice of looking ugly, normal or beautiful on chargen (simple dialog box)

and adjust the range of the sliders that way before you design your face.. and maybe add a bonus special point for beeing ugly, and remove a special point for beeing beautiful...

(considering that ugly people have to work harder to be recognized and vice versa)

and then adding a perk thats giving you a positive or negative bonus for speech checks with npcs of the opposing sex depending on what choice you made.

 

 

sorry for the long smart@ss post

but i've been assembling roleplay systems ever since i was able to think

and i'm constantly disappointed by systems that don't make sense if you really think

about them.

(for example many would be RPGs calculate the chance to hit someone in melee mainly by looking at your strength attribute... forcing you to create a brutish tank type fighter.. but when learning martial arts i was taught how to use someones strength against themselves by beeing more agile, intelligent, skillfull and faster than they are.)

[Tony the Wookie]

Takeing and adding points to facegen wouldn't really guarantee a beautiful or ugly character though...

 

Some of the best faces I have made were just from very slight changes to the defaullt settings, while I have made a ton of changes before and ended up with some sort of freak of nature face

 

So really, I don't think the facegen points would really be a practical way to carry things out

 

 

 

I think it could be better pulled off through textures as opposed to the facegen. Have 10 different textures of varrying beauty, each corresponding to your skill 1-10

 

Another advantage to doing things this way is that you could have good as well as evil face textures to go along with it. So a person with maxed carisma that is evil would look different from a person with maxed carisma that was good

 

 

 

But that is just my theory. But I don't script, and even though I can make face textures... they are pretty horrible and not up to the standards needed for a mod...

[MoreDread292]

well my idea was that you have a SMALLER range on the facegen sliders if youre beatiful, not a bigger one.

 

that was the whole point of mentioning scientific research on facial proportions...

 

but yea textures would really add to that as well...

however i don't think they would be enough on their own...

 

you can still look ugly with tons of makeup on afterall ;)

[Tony the Wookie]

well my idea was that you have a SMALLER range on the facegen sliders if youre beatiful, not a bigger one.

 

that was the whole point of mentioning scientific research on facial proportions...

 

but yea textures would really add to that as well...

however i don't think they would be enough on their own...

 

you can still look ugly with tons of makeup on afterall ;)

 

But you can't just take away peoples ability to customize because they spent MORE points on something. If you did it that way, then people with no carisma would still end up with just as good looking character as people with maxed carisma.

[MoreDread292]

well you would'nt be taking away anything.. you would simply get the option to trade less customizability for a bonus perk, or get a negative perk for even more customizability.

nobody forces you to make that choice.. if you were to pick a normal looking person everything would remain the way it was.

 

so you get

ugly: twice the slider range, attribute/skill bonus, speechcraft malus for opposing sex

normal: no changes at all

beautiful: half the slider range, attribute/skill malus, speechcraft bonus for opposing sex

 

makes sense to me.. only flaws i could think of right now is that you could still make a good

looking face when choosing ugly, and that this system ignores homosexuality.

the first could be fixed by not allowing you to advance if a certain amount of sliders is too close to 0 (assuming that 0 means centered) and if you wanna be gay just have it effect the same sex and not the opposing one. (could be an additional option during chargen, fairly simple to integrate)

 

in the end you would just have some additional options, which means additional customizability on the whole.

nothing is taken away from you.

 

besides if you truly read what i wrote.. my idea has nothing to do with how many points you spent on your charisma, either. instead i tried offering an alternative that makes more sense.

by definition charisma has absolutely nothing to do with the physical makeup of your face.

[Tony the Wookie]

well you would'nt be taking away anything.. you would simply get the option to trade less customizability for a bonus perk, or get a negative perk for even more customizability.

nobody forces you to make that choice.. if you were to pick a normal looking person everything would remain the way it was.

 

so you get

ugly: twice the slider range, attribute/skill bonus, speechcraft malus for opposing sex

normal: no changes at all

beautiful: half the slider range, attribute/skill malus, speechcraft bonus for opposing sex

 

makes sense to me.. only flaws i could think of right now is that you could still make a good

looking face when choosing ugly, and that this system ignores homosexuality.

the first could be fixed by not allowing you to advance if a certain amount of sliders is too close to 0 (assuming that 0 means centered) and if you wanna be gay just have it effect the same sex and not the opposing one. (could be an additional option during chargen, fairly simple to integrate)

 

in the end you would just have some additional options, which means additional customizability on the whole.

nothing is taken away from you.

 

besides if you truly read what i wrote.. my idea has nothing to do with how many points you spent on your charisma, either. instead i tried offering an alternative that makes more sense.

by definition charisma has absolutely nothing to do with the physical makeup of your face.

 

But it still doesn't guarantee that an ugly character will be ugly of that a good looking character will be good looking. There are just too many variables in facegen to really control how good they look and keep the customization at the same time.

 

That is why the only thing that makes sence to me is using something with less variables.

 

Adding more hair and eye options to a character would work

Adding better eyelashes or facial hair or other face options would work

Adding better face textures for higher levels would work

 

But I personally don't see how it would be possible to use the facegen to measure the level of beauty your character had.

 

 

But thats just my personal opinion

[MoreDread292]

again. if you were to use a default head model with perfect proportions.. then any change made to it would make it less perfect... (but more interesting/varied)

so by restricting how much you can change the perfect proportions you would be alot more likely to come up with a face that most people would consider good looking.

and by allowing you to make big changes to the face and prohibiting you from using values close to the default ones would force you to create a face that is not close to perfect proportions.

 

makes sense to me.

 

a 'beauty percentage' could even be calculated from that if you want to make it even more complicated.

 

this is based on science and not something i'm making up.

 

personally i don't think the game really needs it to be enjoyable.

 

but it could theoretically be done this way, and i'd like that alot more than making it depend on your charisma which describes character and not looks.