Trying to track down the reason for a CTD

[gpstr1]

I'm getting an inevitable CTD whenver I go anywhere near Lord Rugdumph's estate. It happens fairly close to the gate in front of the estate, but seems to extend for quite a way behind it-- if I try to walk (or fast travel) to anywhere in that area, it CTDs, every time.

 

So-- I searched through the wikis and such for mentions of this problem and didn't find anything. I tried disabling all mods-- same problem. I tried disabling all mods and making a clean save-- same problem. I tried past saves, set up through OBMM with only their mods active-- same problem. I tried past saves with all mods disabled-- same problem. I tried past saves, mods disabled, made into new clean saves-- same problem. I ran through all the bsas with OBMM's uncorrupter-- it shows no problems.

 

And I'm just not quite sure what to try next. Is a reinstall the only other option? Is there something else to check first? I've been sort of sloppy about removing texture files and such left behind by disabled mods-- can they cause a problem even if the mod isn't active? Could it be linked to UOP? That's the only mod I've installed that actually makes fundamental changes to the basic game. If so, how would I know if that's the problem and how could I avoid it next time?

 

Or do I just grit my teeth and reinstall and hope?

[bben46]

It's possible that the crash is from some mod you removed. If you save with a mod enabled, then later go back to that save after removing the mod. Sometimes there will be some object that the game is looking for and can't find. It will CTD when you enter that cell, or possibly when you look at it from outside the cell. Have you removed any mods that affect things in that area lately?

[gpstr1]

So far as I know, I've neither installed nor disabled any mods that affect that area at all.

 

I had one weapon mod installed that had quite a few conflicts (sloppy bit of work, really) but the only worldspace it altered (or so it said) was at the opposite end of the map. I deleted everything having to do with it. Other than UOP, I've never had any mods installed that make any fundamental changes-- just weapons and armor, a couple of houses (none of which are even close to that end of the map), one custom race (Corean), CMCompanions and a few gameplay alterations-- Kobu's leveling mod and quick start mod, unlimited rings, enchantment restore, dangerous wilderness, quest award leveling-- that sort of thing. And none of those alter any cells at all.

 

I'm still not clear on how a disabled mod could do anythng anyway though-- at least if I'm working from a clean save. I would think that, without the esp enabled to tell the game to look for something, it just wouldn't look for it. But maybe I'm missing something there.

 

Am I right on that? If I disable all the mods, start the game from an existing save, then make a new save from that one, exit the game and restart it with that clean save, haven't I sidestepped any possible effects from old mods? Presuming at least that they didn't alter any common files?

[dezdimona]

list your mods and their load order please

[gpstr1]

Actually, I was just looking for some pointers to try to track this down on my own, and I honestly don't believe that any of my installed mods are the problem (since, as I said, starting from a clean save with all mods disabled didn't help), but anyway:

 

CM Partners.esm

Oblivion.esm

Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp

77_Umpa_Animation.esp

hilarity_121.esp

Maigrets House Cats.esp

BanditHelmets.esp

VendorAmmoLL.esp

1DeadlyShadows.esp

Adonnays Elven Weaponry.esp

Andragorn_Weapons_Armors.esp

DBShadowSet.esp

HB Ayelid Longsword.esp

HB Elven Sunbreaker Shortsword.esp

Shdw_weapon pack01.esp

Shdw_Armor pack01.esp

Shdw_Armor pack02.esp

Shdw_Armor Set_Sotonhorian.esp

Woodsman Armor.esp

HognutsHaven.esp

Lakeview2.esp

Maple Leaf Cottage.esp

Tobes_house.esp

VineViewCottage.esp

Expensive pelts.esp

MarkerExplore.esp

Kobu's Character Advancement System.esp

Kobu's 2x Slower Jack-of-All-Trades Mod.esp

Kobu's Health Modifier Mod.esp

Kobu's Cure for Fatigue Mod.esp

Kobu's Skip Intro Mod.esp

Smarter Mercantile Leveling - Multi.esp

Quest Award Leveling.esp

Unlimited Rings 2.0 -auto.esp

dangerous wilderness.esp

ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp

EnchantmentRestore.esp

EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp

CM Partners.esp

CM Partners NPC NE.esp

CM Partners More NPCs NE.esp

CM Partner Sara.esp

Nec-Character_Sonnet_Sweet.esp

Nec-Character_Sonnet_Spoiled.esp

Nec-Character_Sonnet_Mature.esp

DANECSSONNET.esp

Female Bosmer Resize.esp

Kit Rae Weaponry.esp

 

 

And that's it.......

 

 

 

Funny thing I've discovered just now though. I've always been perplexed by CM Partners.esm loading before Oblivion.esm, but have always assumed that that was just some quirk and that the game knew better than I did, so I let it go. I just now tried moving Oblivion.esm back to the top and that got rid of the CTDs sometimes, but not all of the time. I haven't yet pinned down exactly when it still CTDs and when it doesn't, but there are at least some times when it doesn't, which is an improvement.

 

Right ATM though, I've got something I need to do in the real world, so I'll have to get back to this later.

 

Thanks for getting me pointed in the right direction, if only obliquely.....

 

 

*And edited to add*

 

I still can't figure it out. Running with the idea that it might have something to do with the Partners mod and/or with my partner, I tried a variety of combinations there, but with no concrete results-- with just the esp for my partner disabled, with all of the partner esps and the esm disabled, with everything enabled and my companion in game, but just left behind at Walker camp and with her with me. Sometimes it crashed and sometimes it didn't.

 

At least that means that if I join the fighters guild and end up having to go to the estate, I can apparently sooner or later do it, but that's not really a solution-- it's just a workaround.

 

I'm still wondering about clean saves, and at this point, that's the thing I most need to know in order to work on this some more. If I disable all of my mods, then go into the game and save with the mods disabled, then exit the game, then restart it with the new save, WILL that eliminate any possibility of a mod related crash (excepting possibly mods that have overwritten files that Oblivion uses no matter what)? That was my understanding, but I'm not so convinced now, since in every experiment I've done so far, including disabling all mods, I've done a clean save before I did anything else, but it hasn't seemed to make much difference.

[gpstr1]

And still more (sorry for the self-bump, but I didn't want to edit the last post yet again, especially since it doesn't read as a new post, and I'd rather this one doesn't lemming off of the first page quite yet).....

 

Just did a full reinstall a little while ago, but that didn't seem to do the trick either. Even with all mods disabled and a clean save, I still get the CTD. Most of the time.

 

It's centered around Lord Rugdumph's but somehow not limited to it. I can't fast travel to LR's, but I also can't fast travel to Azura's Shrine, but I can hike there from Lake Arrius Caverns. And when I came back down from Azura's Shrine, by way of LR's, with everything enabled and my companion with me, I walked right up to the door with no crash. Then I restarted it again, fast traveled to Lake Arrius Caverns again and hiked from there to Lord Rugdumph's, and it crashed at the exact same point, in front of the gate.

 

I felt more confident about figuring it out when it seemed it was crashing every time. Now that it's only crashing part of the time, I just have no idea.

[Maigrets]

Information is stored in save games even when you disable a mod and make a clean save. To make a clean save properly you should do it this way if you haven't already.

 

Go to an interior without any other NPC's including companions with your mods enabled. For example the Testinghall:

coc testinghall in the console. You can also use your house but also without other actors present.

 

Save the game and exit. Disable your mods or a mod if you suspect it is the one causing the issue. Go back in game and save again. Ignore the error messages about missing content. Use the wait function to wait at least 4 days or one day more than your respawn settings if any of your mods change them. This will clear data and respawn the world.

 

However, some mods that alter fundamental parts of the core game can still retain information that it needs and cannot be cleaned. These will most likely still cause CTD's if the mods they require are missing.

 

You can use Wrye Bash to make a Bashed Patch to help with this, but still may not work.

 

When you reinstalled did you start a new game or use the same saves? If you used the old saves try a completely new game and make your way to Lord R's and see if it still happens.

 

Also CM Partners ESM will load before the esp anyway because ESM's always load first no matter where they are in the load order.

[gpstr1]

Ah.... thanks Maigrets-- you're a class act.

 

I did indeed use my existing saves after the reinstall, though after making what I believed to be clean saves from them. Now I see that they weren't so clean anyway.

 

As of late last night though, none of it really matters any more (unless the same problem crops up again) because I gave in, uninstalled, wiped everything Oblvion related from my system (including all mods, saves, registry entries-- EVERYTHING) and reinstalled from scratch. I'm reasonably certain that, whatever it was, the problem was in a script or something of that nature-- that's the only explanation I can come up with for it only crashing sometimes. It seems to me that if it was a problem with a texture or mesh or something of that nature, it would've crashed every time. And I figured I had even less hope of tracking such an obscure problem down than I might've had tracking a more obvious problem down, and I still didn't have the faintest idea where to even start in either case, so I really couldn't seen any other option.

 

So I played through to the sewer gate with nothing other than UOP installed and then saved there before I added any other mods or did anything else (which should provide me with a handy spot for future clean saves, if necessary), and I'm now slowly installing things and working back through. I haven't tried going to Lord R's yet-- I'm still in the Market District selling the loot from the sewers and building up the dispositions of all the locals. I honestly haven't been in much of a hurry to try to go there-- if all of this has failed to solve the problem, I'd almost rather not know anyway.

 

Though now that I'm thinking about it, I'm curious, and it'd be good to assure myself that the problem isn't in one of the ten mods I've so far reinstalled (though among the basic requirements for reinstalling them is that I trust them).

 

In any event-- thanks for the answer. I really wanted to understand what a truly clean save requires, and now I do.

 

And by the bye-- your Maple Leaf Cottage is the only house I've got installed, since it's my favorite by far. So thanks for that too.... :thanks: