Some basic questions about NifSkope

[BarbyFN]

I’ve read a lot of tutorials but never found such things, if I can’t properly explain myself please see the attached image for reference. These are the issues:

 

A. Usually NiTriStrips are in their own NiNode, like 59, 68 and 77 in the image (red highlights), but I’ve found many of them grouped in one single NiNode, like 7 in image.

 

1) Is there an advantage on this, like optimization or similar, or is only for personal convenience?

2) And most important: how can I do this?

 

B. Many times, NiTriStrips has the same prefix (green highlights).

 

3) Same question as before: Is there an advantage on this, or is only for convenience?

 

C. When I change the string name I can put anything, but also there are a lot of options like “presets” (orange highlights)

 

4) Is it better to choose one of those prefix? Or better is typing my own names? (like in tutorials says).

5) Can I delete safely any of those names? (for optimization).

 

D. And for the last, many of these preset names comes with ‘##’ (blue highlights in the image)

 

6) What does it means?

7) Should I type ‘##’ when I edit strings or such are things that the program does by itself in certain circumstances?

 

Well, that’s enough for now, I’m designing my own gear so I want to do the best as possible and these kinds of things never were explained in any tutorial that I read before. I’ll appreciate any help.

[Deleted1205226User]

Some your question relate to a specific type of nif with specific settings : Weapon.
I can only give you some general answers/guessing since nif and NifSkope are still under investigation and discovery are made everyday.

What I mean is : I'm far for an an expert, I try to decode and understand this stuff just like you :)

A) NiTriStrips grouping under node have often something to do with animation.

1) Under 7 are several NiTriStrips and a NiTriShapes, but NiTriStrips with a Transform Controller (thus animated) are separate. In certain circumstances, you'll need to group all the elements under one node to animate, in other you'll have to have them separate.
There must be other reasons...

2) Roughly, insert a NINode and make the NiTriStrips you want under its children

B)3) Mostly for convenience.
Keeping a prefix for the different parts of one object help to keep track. Here the Node name is SniperRifle and each part start with his name. That can be very practical when dealing with several parts of several objects that need to linked to each other.
Some strings need to be written a certain way (Name of animation.) but It doesn't seems to matter as far as NiTriStrips name are concern.

C) The "presets" are actually the strings that have been imputed before. You are able to choose and type a new name or take one used before.

4) It depends : if you make a little change or add one branch of one nif, better leave the naming as it is.
If you're building/frankensteining from different source better find a personal coherent naming.
In general, if things work as they are, don't change them.

5) Careful, if a name is referenced in an animation, deleting it will prevent the animation playing.
What kind of "optimization" you have in mind ?

I've no idea about to two last question.

Hope this helps a bit !

[vforvic]

Everything I learned about NifSkope and Blender have mostly been trial and error so what I know may or may not be totally accurate.

 

D6) The ## seems to be a naming convention used while modeling in 3dMax or Blender or whatever they use to actually make the model of the weapon. When you make a new Object (OB) in Blender such as a Cube then the name says something like Cube, Cube.001, Cube.002, Cube.003. etc... This is not very helpful so you would normally rename the Object to something more helpful like Barrel or Hammer or Slide or whatever. To help further you might use ## to show a specific connection between the objects like the animated parts that work together in some way or maybe Objects tied together in a certain axis. If you look at your image example you can see that the ## names are connected by being part of the firing and reload animations. This might not seem like a big deal on a small model, but on a very large or complex model or scene this would be useful to everyone working on the model or scene. When people are editing other peoples models they might use the underscore _ to show their work. This is simply to find and identify their custom work in the model. Similar to how people use custom prefixes such as 11 or AA or abc inside their mods naming conventions to find their work more easily in the GECK.

 

D7) So this brings us to how you should edit strings in NifSkope. Unless you are combining pieces of models in NifSkope or really know what you are doing I would not recommend renaming at all as it can lead to issues because some nodes rely on others to have a certain name. I really cannot think of any benefit to doing it. For example with the hunting rifle, if you rename NiTriStrips ##Bolt:0 to Bolt:0 then no big deal and everything works. But if you rename NiNode ##Bolt to Bolt then the animation is messed up for the bolt. You do not see it upon first firing the weapon in Fallout, but if you look closely you see the bolt is not there when the hand cycles the bolt.

 

Learning a little Blender can help you kind of understand NifSkope and how the models work. Since my knowledge of 3d Modeling is very limited I use both from time to time to get done what I need to get done. There are things that I do not fully understand, but I know about cause and effect which is how I learned what I know so far. :smile:

[BarbyFN]

Thanks for such detailed explanations, I can’t believe that this useful tool still so unknown, this thread was very helpful to me. There is only one thing that I want to be sure:

 

I have mixed several weapons using the procedures described to keep the animations by “copy” and “paste over” each NiTriStripsData and all works fine. But I thought that would be better for optimization to merge all pieces except the mag, the trigger and the bolt.

 

I have done that by “paste branch” under an existing NINode in the weapon of the image, but to keep the animations I needed to use the vanilla sniperrifle model as a template and it has all of its NiTriStrips ungrouped.

 

So how can I group some NiTriStrips in one NiNode when there were none before? Does this improve the model? And the most important; would be safe? Perhaps most wise would be that if it works don’t fix it... I don’t know.

[neomonkeus]

You are better off not using NiTriStrips, they were orginally used for hardware limitations, but with modern hardware they can be seen as less optimal, use NiTriShapes.

 

The point about them being under a single NiNode. This also occurs with object grouping and single object, multiple material export -> split to single material per TriShape. .Nif format only supports one material per TriShape (also code dependant on situation, but it doesn't make any difference, I can't remember the old code).

 

There is nothing wrong with grouping Trishapes under NiNodes, its mainly used to apply common transformations to a group of objects, eg scale, translation, rotation. You're not going to "break" anything. :wink:

[BarbyFN]

The point about them being under a single NiNode. This also occurs with object grouping and single object, multiple material export -> split to single material per TriShape.

 

mmm I still don't understand how to made a group because I can't locate in menus such things as "multiple material export" or "split", could you explain it step by step please?

 

You are better off not using NiTriStrips, they were orginally used for hardware limitations, but with modern hardware they can be seen as less optimal, use NiTriShapes.

 

I have been editing various weapons and I don't remember seeing NiTriShapes before, all of them were NiTriStrips (as it shown the picture I've posted). But if Shapes are better, how can I copy a Strips and convert it to Shapes?

 

Just in case, I like optimization (because I am using a lot of pieces), so why using NiTriShapes is better?

[BarbyFN]

I've just found a weapon with NiTriShapes, and the Stripify function in NifSkope to turns Shapes into Strips, but I couldn't find an option to turn Strips into Shapes, is that possible in NifSkope? Also I need to know what are the differences or advantages of Shapes and Strips please.

Edited March 19, 2014 by BarbyFN

[vforvic]

 

mmm I still don't understand how to made a group because I can't locate in menus such things as "multiple material export" or "split", could you explain it step by step please?

 

Just in case, I like optimization (because I am using a lot of pieces), so why using NiTriShapes is better?

 

I've just found a weapon with NiTriShapes, and the Stripify function in NifSkope to turns Shapes into Strips, but I couldn't find an option to turn Strips into Shapes, is that possible in NifSkope? Also I need to know what are the differences or advantages of Shapes and Strips please.

To make a new group you would right click the BSFadeNode or NiNode or whatever is the top Node. Then say Node - Attach Node and make your choice form the list.

 

This is my very limited understanding of Shapes vs Strips. Back in the days of Oblivion, probably before but that was my first experience, there were Shape and Strips. Shapes were used for some things and Strips for others. Among other things I think one was best for faces and the other for transparencies and other special effect type objects. You have to remember that hardware and Software were kind of in this running battle at that time and before. Software was in this running battle to crush any hardware available. Hardware was slow to catch up, but eventually did...more or less. Strips were kind of a way to simplify the mesh so the hardware could render it easier. Shapes may have been a little better, but Strips were easier. These days it does not really matter that much so you can use Shape with no hardware issues.

 

To convert a Strip to a Shape you right click the node and say Mesh - Triangulate.

 

My 2 cents in all this. In a Mod production environment be careful getting too crazy in Optimize and Strips vs Shapes. What you are doing is an excellent way to learn, but even between versions of NifSkope things can be different. You do one thing in NifSkope 1.1.0 and it works perfect, but in 1.1.1 it acts a little different. I used to run Optimize and Sanitize on every nif I worked on in NifSkope, but not anymore. Things can look perfect in NifSkope and even the GECK, but messed up in Fallout 3. You don't want to get down the road with a production mesh and find out it is missing pieces in-game or something similar. You have to remember that many nifs have several hands that have worked on them. Some to them are held together by spit and baling wire. They might work, but who know how. Like you I try to optimize everything in my mods to be as clean and easy to run as possible on most hardware. But Fallout 3 is over 5 years old. Most hardware can smash FO3 into submission now. :smile:

 

[neomonkeus]

Here is a previous response to TriStrips v's TriShapes - http://niftools.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3967

@vforvic - that has more to do with the nif.xml when Skyrim support was being added, that has been fixed in subsequent versions.

[BarbyFN]

Thanks, this thread was very enlightening to me. Now I understand why NiTriShapes are better and the convenience to work with them, but one question about: If I have NiTriStrips (extracted from previous nif), convert into NiTriShapes would improve them? Or the lost information will never be restored? In that case is still better convert them for other reasons?

 

I’m asking because if you compress an image into JPG you loss information, it destroy pixels, so revert it again in TIFF will never restore lost pixels, you just end up with a heavier image but in the same quality. Is it the same with Strips/Shapes?

 

My case is that I have a weapon made with 12 pieces of other weapons, only 2 of them are Shapes, the rest are Strips. So should I convert all 10 Strips into Shapes? or the only 2 shapes in Strips? or just leave them as they are?