A New Daedric Prince

[kieranfoy]

Ourobouros? The black sludgy thing from Resident Evil 5? Lol nevermind, it's all good.

The Orobouros is a mythological dragon (or somethomes snake) that eats its own tail. It's a symbol for eternity.

[zprospero]

I've looked through the lore and it appears that what Ealdor needs is a Mantella.

 

In the Daggerfall game the goal was to find and rescue the Mantella so it could be

used to reanimate the first numidium because it served as a replacement for the

Heart of Lorkhan. So, a Mantella would be the main thing needed to create the

Counterfeit Heart.

 

The original Mantella was created by soul-trapping Ysmir (King Wulfharth), because

he was an incarnation of Lorkhan or Zurin Arcturus sacrificing his heart to make the

Mantella, making him into the Underking. The original was destroyed during the

Warp in the West, so we need to make a new one. Part of the quest will involve getting the

soul of an incarnation of Lorkhan and by getting the heart of an Imperial Battlemage.

 

The first one we'll have to create, but we already know an Imperial Battlemage, don't we?

 

In addition, I'm thinking of adding a part that sends you into Apocrypha (Hermaeus Mora's realm),

which is a vast library filled with ghosts looking for knowledge. Probably some sort of elaborate

puzzle rather than fighting in this area.

 

Two more lore related things:

 

Sithis is the nothingness from before the universe was created, but he's not outside of time,

he's in the flow like the other gods. Ouroboros is meant to be the space outside of time.

 

The space outside of time is mentioned in the Anuad. Padomay and Anu fell out of time forever

and into this non-space. This could be used in the story somehow, but I can't think of a way yet.

 

@grmblf

 

Actually, there wasn't a reason until you mentioned it and I read about the Mantella. There's at

least one reason so far, you can get in close to the Imperial Battlemage. There will be other reasons,

eventually.

 

I totally agree about separating the two parts and am currently focusing on the 'ascension' part of this,

but I think a lot could be added on afterward.

 

I like the idea of various books being altered, I would think Ealdor would be slightly vain and it would make

sense that he'd use his powers to make so changes to the past.

 

I love the idea of him sending the player back to the wrong time, he's supposed to be absent minded

and I'd think it would be possible to send the player back and reset the activators temporarily.

 

I'd be glad to hear any more ideas you have.

[grmblf]

Man it's not easy thinking of stuff that would fit the story when it has this level of detail about the lore and the gods, actualy you're gonna make me read the lore related articles on the wiki :) Here are some random thoughts:

 

Twisted background and repercussions:

Can really Nocturnal appreciate someone? Perhaps they only want him to be a daedra prince to send Azura out of time or some other god, but he's too blind that thinks she'll love him. It'd be nice that even between the princes that want him to ascend there are different degree of empathy for him, like this one you mentioned that really respects him for being his witness, or others that simply want to use him for and end and other like Sheogorath that simply want him succeed to make real fun.

 

This could make things pretty much interesting (and complicated) once he's up there. Perhaps once he's a daedra he's no longer charmed due having seen the true face of Nocturnal and thus he gets disapointed, but she try to convice him that she can't show him her true love until Azura is out of time or so (b¡tch!). Perhaps the player could discover this plot once he already is Ealdor right's hand by talking to the daedric shrines, and then can choose to tell so to Ealdor or not, or tell some other thing. This could affect the way he ascends / what he first make when he's out there, ie, if nocturnal succeeds he'll try to fight Azura immediatly, and will fail, being lost eternaly in the nothingness outside time. If the one of the books succeds (Molag bal? too many names for me :P) then perhaps he still want to fight Azura and conquer Nocturnal's heart by his deeds :P but he will first gather all the info and power he needs, and then he'll have the full aid of others princes and will succeed. This could be the choice to play the whole quest, as you'll have several tasks from Orobouros to make him powerful enought and the final battle against Azura, probably using this new chronomancy spells. Sheogorath could also be there casting insane spells... oh man this can be epic, really.

 

Promised awards (just another joke):

When the quest starts the player is told about that tower by an emissary as you said, and once there Ealdor asks him something (the heart of an imperial battlemage? perhaps first better make the player go to that ghostly book research?), anyway, he asks us a favor and promises eternal life in exchange. When the player fulfill this first quest then he says you're helpful for him and asks you either if you want to conclude this business, get eternal life and say him goodbye or if you want to keep 'working' for him, and learn something about chronomancy. If the player chooses to give up and take eternal life time will stop, everything will stop, even the player won't be able to move, and then it's told that without time you never grow old, nothing can happen to you, so you can't die. And the only choice would be to reload a previous game and choose the other option.

 

The Realm out of space and time (and another bad joke):

I don't know how hard it would be to do, if it's ever possible, to make a world, a cell in fact, absolutely empty everything in black with a difuse white light so it isn't absolutely dark, and make a transparent texture for the ground so you can walk on nothingness and see below you, if not texturing the ground then perhaps it's possible to make a mesh of a big square without textures that could work as a surface. And then add some NPCs frozen in strange positions floating there above and below you, at different heights, representing those who were sent out of time, like the two you mentioned from the Anuad and more. So you can move there because he wants you to be able to move, because he grants you time while outside time. As you should guess, this old man may forget you there and render you unable to move, out of time. And then he could come back apologizing for forgetting you, and he's lamenting he forgot you there for several years! (for the player it could be just a matter of seconds, but out of time who knows how fast time goes by?) but in the end when the player comes back to Cyrodiil he'll discover that hasn't passed not even a day, but it may take him some time to find it out if the player didn't know wich day it was, and a lot of players, just like me, simply haven't find a reason to care about the current date, so it may take a while until they check everything is in it's place.

 

Speaking without time:

As Ealdor or Orobouros is out of time, he might find difficult making the distinction between past, present and future, and either he may speak always in present or he might use either past, present and future without caring really if what he's telling has already happened or not, as probably this doesn't make much sense for him. So maybe first time you meet him he could say something like "ohh, good that my emissary will find you and you'll enter the portal to meet me" when this is precisely what you have done right before meeting him, and then he'd continue with "I was glad you were here" just to drive player crazy. I know it's crazy and that this might lead to confussion but this may be intentional, you could make real fun if he tolds you to perform two tasks in a specific order and everytime he tells you that he's changing verbal times, so you have to guess for yourself wich one should be done first.

 

And that's all for now. As I said this are just random suggestions, and in the end it's your mod so make with them what you want.

 

PS: what the hell is a Mantella??

[DagonTheranis]

Ok, the tenses thing is brilliant. If you want to know what a mantella is, read the post a few up.

[grmblf]

If you want to know what a mantella is, read the post a few up.

Well I know from the post above that a mantella could be used to reanimate the first numidium because it served as a replacement for the Heart of Lorkhan and that original Mantella was created by soul-trapping Ysmir (King Wulfharth), because he was an incarnation of Lorkhan or Zurin Arcturus and that sacrificing his heart made the Mantella, making him into the Underking. We're also told that the original was destroyed during the Warp in the West, so we need to make a new one but I don't know who Lorkhan or Ysmir were nor what a numidium was so it really doesn't give me a clue about what the mantella is. :( Man, don't assume I don't read the whole threads I post in, I do.

[Pronam]

Link

The Mantella is a massive green gem that is the heart of Numidium. It cost Tiber Septim his own heart to create it.

The second numidium had the heart of Lorkhan, a red gem/stone..(Morrowind)

[zprospero]

@Pronam

 

Where did you find that entry? Everything I've read said that Zurin Arcturus was the one

who gave up his heart to make the Mantella, or at least it mentioned the Underking. It may

be due to some confusion because Talos, whom Tiber Septim became, was supposed to be

a combination of Tiber Septim, Zurin Arcturus, and Ysmir.

 

@grmblf

 

The first Numidium was a giant iron golem that the Tiber Septim used to conquer Tamriel.

His name, as a god, Talos, is actually a play on this because it is a reference from Greek

mythology wherein Zeus gives a massive bronze robot named 'Talos' as a gift.

 

The enormous robot the original Heart of Lorkhan was in, built by Dagoth Ur, is the

second Numidium, just look up Akulakhan, and gives you a pretty clear idea of what

the original might have looked like.

 

The Warp in the West, was a clever way of getting out of dealing with Daggerfall's multiple

endings. This was because Akatosh is the god of time, and the player accidentally caused a

temporal disturbance when passing through his realm, making all of the endings happen

simultaneously. So, the player is killed, the Numidium is ressurected, Orsinium is created,

the original King of Worms becomes a god (which is good precedence for Ealdor's use of the

Mantella) and the Underking reclaims his heart and dies.

 

Interesting (debatable) side note: The original King of Worms is said to have become the Necromancer's Moon.

 

Lore aside now,

 

I think Nocturnal is particularly soft among the Daedra. She never really kills anyone or tortures them

for anything. When you steal back her Eye she doesn't seem to be very vengeful, unlike Vaermina for

example. The cowl is the only thing that's cruel, but that depends on the person and it was a booby-trap

not her vengeance. So it's hard to say. She certainly seems to be one of the most easy going of the Daedra,

but it's certainly a possibility.

 

The thing about shifting tenses is great, and fits the character well. I like the joke ideas, and I think the one

outside of time and space would be very easy. I've clipped out of buildings in the game to look around before

and I was able to walk through the empty parts fairly easily. So, it could be done.

 

I think references to Anu and Padomay should be there, but only their blood. Anu's blood became the stars,

Padomay's blood became the Daedra, and the mixing of their blood created the Aedra (the Divines.) Padomay's

blood could be used to transform Ealdor into a full-fledged Daedra, but the Anuad is very mythological in nature

and so we might want to avoid putting too much into the mod from there.

[krimzin]

Since we being all lore-sy, we should make the imperial battlemage who's heart needs to be taken, a reincarnation of Jagar Tharn. Ha, now we can span this quest over every single elder scrolls game. I wonder what the creators of the game would say if they heard this idea. It's a pretty epic idea. more of a completely new game than a simple quest. Maybe we could even throw in another elder scroll. that would help us get around a lot of plot holes since the elder scrolls can do just about anything. except someone would have to read it and go blind because of that. maybe oruboros himself could be blinded. Since nobody can see the true path of time, time itself should be blind, right?

 

just a bunch of spontaneous thoughts

[zprospero]

@krimzin

 

Hmm, I always though that High Chancellor Ocato seemed suspicious. Jagar Tharn was

an Imperial Battlemage too, and he also took power in the emperor's absence, though he

was disguised as the emperor at the time. He's also associated with Mehrunes Dagon.

 

It would tie in perfectly to the main quest, this time he sat back and watched, and made

sure all the bases were covered. Dagon may have lost but Tharn would still rule the empire.

Seems probable.

 

Two extra things:

 

1. I imagine, as a Telvanni and lunatic, that Ealdor would be somewhat cruel to enemies of his.

I would like to put a room in his palace filled with display cases of people who have done him

some wrong, some very petty ones and others devastating, who are being tortured by being immortal

and paralyzed, but can still think and feel. A khajiit cutpurse who tried to pickpocket him sealed in with

a bunch of undying fleas, etc. Any ideas for this showroom? Try and keep them comical.

 

2. I'm planning on having one or two guest appearances from Morrowind. Who isn't in the

game that you'd most like to see one more time? (I pretty much know which ones I want, but

everybody's been coming up with such great ideas I thought I'd ask)

[andy12750]

The Nerevarine!