ANARCHY

[TheCalliton]

First off, thanks to buddah for confirming that I can post this

 

hey guys, i want to have a debate about anarchy

here is a site you should check out before saying "Anarchy is bad" trust me, read about it before you point the ban finger at anarchy

http://www.ditext.com/wolff/anarchy.html

 

a few things to add for those too lazy to read

 

I Auhtority vs Power

Authority is the right to command, and can be disputed, kinda like me

Power often involves the use of force and cannot be disputed... like Buddah

 

II The autonomous man (the AM)

The AM is every person, wether an anarchist or not. If youve broken the law, your like the AM, you follow the rules of the government you see fit out of a need for social order. The autonomous man is simply put, a man without a country. He can roam from country to country, and follow their laws, BUT THE COUNTRIE'S LAWS ARE NOT HIS OWN. Autonomy is basically freedom. The concept of the AM does not include children and madmen (that means you, katashy)

 

III The state of nature (read up on Locke or Hobbes) is anarchy.

 

IV Dejure vs Defacto

Dejure is a legitimate government, while Defacto isnt. NO GOVERNMENT IS DEJURE. There is one example of a dejure government, ancient israel (according to the bible) because in ancient israel, god ruled directly to the people, and you dan't really dispute the authority of a great being who created everything.

 

V Anarchy itself

anarchy is not what most people think of, I, E, Killing and stealing and chaos. Anarchy is basically a lack of a Dejure government, and the realization that the laws set by a Defacto government do not hold much except that if you break them, they will punish you, they can be enforced, and are mostly followed as a need for a secure social order.

 

 

this is gonna be so damn fun!

[TheCalliton]

one more thing, state if you are an anarchist please, I wanna know how many of you guys are

 

 

edit: too tired... must say awake for anarchy debate... loosing awake... zzz

goodnight

[buddah]

This should be interesting, now some guidance even though he uses an ancient jewish reference this is not to become a religious debate.....it is an example, nothing more. Bring up that aspect and you will have violated the rules of the forum.

 

Moderator actions for those who violate these rules will be swift, harsh and possibly permanent in nature.

 

Buddah

[TheCalliton]

thanks for the clarification, buddah

 

now to wait for a response

[Branimirzg]

Ohhh...In yugoslavia :down: there was a place for such guys...It was called "Naked Island" :banana: :banana: :banana:

[TheCalliton]

not what i expected... i was kinda hoping to educate about anarchy

[Branimirzg]

ohhh...It was educational...Trust me! :devil:

[Sharkull]

Civilization is a good thing (IMO). Anarchy + human nature = chaos = bye bye to civilization.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy

1 - "No rulership or enforced authority."

2 - "Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder."

3 - "A social state in which there is no governing person or group of people, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."

4 - "Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere."

 

3 is an interesting thought experiment (considering the comment pertaining to an "implication of disorder"), but completely impossible to achieve in reality. Human beings seek to better their own lives, and if they can do so at the expense of others, history has proven (many, many times over...) that this is what happens. Civilization (such that humans have a reasonable chance to pursue happiness vs. struggling just to survive) needs a functional Justice system. A Justice system requires some form of authority, and necessarily, that authority would need the power to infringe on the "absolute liberty" of people, breaking the anarchy dream.

 

Without a justice system, trade halts, currencies become useless, necessities of life (food, clothing, shelter...) go up for grabs and the strong prosper, the weak become victims (no freedom for them)... cities become death camps (starvation...). Once the "strong" run out of victims and plunder, they resort to animalistic pack behaviour... turning on each other. This may take years, decades or centuries, but I think the pattern is quite easy to see. History has many examples.

 

Note: I didn't read your linked essay... I just skimmed a couple points.

 

Authority and Autonomy -

Looking in the wrong place (theory vs practicality) and assumes a particular set of values (absolute freedom as an impeachable goal). "...the only reasonable political belief for an enlightened man." Arrogance in the extreme. Trading a compromise in liberty for civilization to exist is reasonable.

 

Democracy -

In all forms of democracy there are shortcomings, but it generally seems the best of the alternatives. Picking apart the failings is useless without a choice for something better.

 

The Quest for the Legitimate State - "...a viable form of political association which will harmonize the moral autonomy of the individual with the legitimate authority of the state."

The ability to leave a jurisdiction if you don't like the laws agreed upon by its population is pretty much mandatory here. In that way, every individual can choose where the trade-off between freedom vs. civilization is to their tastes. The forms of government that fail to meet the needs of their population shrink and die. Prosperous forms of government thrive. Granted, the psychological tools of patriotic propaganda and culture are strong barriers to this type of migration, but such is life.

[DeathWarrior]

I wouldn't call myself an anarchist, but I do sometimes tend to feel like a free spirit/rebel. One thing I strongly believe is that life should be lived to the fullest, even if that includes bending/breaking the rule a little. I'm obviously not going to kill anyone or do anything extremely irrational like that, but I'm not going to let anyone have influence over me or tell me what to do, I do things out of my own free will. I get especially angry when people try to push morals on me when I have already formed them myself.

 

I don't necessarily believe in lawlessness, but individual freedom I think should be emphasized. Power should be taken away from large corporations and governments and truly given to the people. My idea of a legitimate government would be one by the people and for the people. I'm not sure what political spectrum I would be, but I imagine it would be somewhere between center and left; the people on the right (at least in my opinion) seem to be the ones trying to enforce morals. But I'm not going to turn this into a political left vs right debate, people can believe what they want.

[TheCalliton]

currency is just for simplicity, there is no such thing an "no currency" currency is whatever people are willing to trade for... fo rus its a bunch of worthless paper