spoiler The ending of the game

[DarkeWolf]

Hmmmm, k...this conversation obviously isnt gonna go anywhere but bad. I'm not gonna back down on my opinion of him, and it looks like you feel as strongly about your side of it. So I'll call truce, so we don't hijack this thread, ok?

 

But I do have to say again, that while Loghain did indeed add drama to the game, he was hardly the main focus of the game. Thats like the people that say that star wars 4 was all about Darth Maul.

 

Besides, Howe was a harder kill. Loghain was easy to put down. Howe was a bit of a challenge. But both of them should have been tougher to beat.

[Tikkidew]

Thats like the people that say that star wars 4 was all about Darth Maul.

After I read that I was thinking about Anakin Skywalker becoming Darth Vader while considering Loghain. Both were great heroes of a common wealth who put duty before themselves. Both, turned to a less then honorable path to achieve selfish goals through power and manipulation. (and if you let him become a Warden) Both Redeem themselves .. well, somewhat, Loghain had no other choice, besides death.

 

Yes, we hijacked this thread .. but don't feel sorry for this thread changing pace, it's not like we're at "social.bioware.com" forums. That's why I love this place, it's way more relaxed. :)

 

I have fun here, people don't get all pissy when you don't agree with them. DarkeWolf, I must say, I love all your posts. You're really a great asset to these DA:O forums. So don't feel bad if you get side tracked when posting, to me at least, it's always an interesting read.

[whiteaden]

The ending did made me think about all the choices I'd made during the game (and some weren't good I tell you). At least in the expansion your choices are from DA: O and your personal relationship (depending on what you did with them) your companions are shown during your adventures.

 

And the name of the expansion is Dragon Age: Awakening not Sacred Ashes :biggrin:

 

my first play through was a f*ckin' mess I tell you... I killed Wynn (cause she didn't let me pass through the damn barrier soon enough) so I had to respec Morrigan because I did not have a healer... I played a Rogue, had Alistair in my party to 'tank' until I got Shale... (I did not install the DLC right away) then after I got Shale it was just Me, Morrigan, Shale & Leliana or whoever I needed for the plot (usually Alistair)...

 

if I am going to import a new game it'll be my Dwarven Warrior.. I'm so letting Alistair DIE when fighting the Arch Demon... I absolutely hate him... I'm romancing (if it's possible as non-Human) Leliana and will keep Morrigan there just for the damage she does with her Elemental spells (oh those burns still hurt, I have invested in Fire Resistance to prevent myself from getting fried when she roasts my enemies... lol)

 

I think it would be sweet to be able to pursue whatever you pledged to do in the epilogue in either one of the (later) expansions or DA2... I think that if DA2 will take too long it won't be fun to actually pursue your goals, because you've (I know I will) lost interest after a certain amount of expansions/DLC or you've completely lost interest in the franchise due to either LIFE getting in the way, or some other game pushing Dragon Age into the background...

[Mlai]

I admire Loghain for standing up for his beliefs but I do not agree with the actions he took to keep them.

I don't think there is any black and white in this game, just shades of grey.

I think case in point is Bhelen. He is a tyrant and likely a murderer of brothers (I haven't played the DN origin yet, though). Yet, his rule is visionary, and dwarves prospered under him.

 

If Maric were alive to see what Loghain had become, I assure you he would not rest until he saw Loghain come to justice.

Maric may indeed be that sort of idealistic man, yes. Doesn't justify any condemnation of Loghain, though.

 

He is a vicious and sinister man. He's a deviate leader of men and uses power and manipulation to forward his resolve. A person who was true and valiant would never engage in such...

I simply feel that in the larger scheme of things, i.e. in the fate of nations, the ends justify the means. It all depends on whether you get away with it. And that all depends on whether you win, and get to write the history books your way.

 

I know he was wrong in thinking that a conventional army can stop the Blight, and that he's biased against Orlais. However, given the facts that he had on hand to work with, i.e. if he was *right*, then his decisions can be justified.

 

Letting him become a Warden and facing a hero's demise on the Battle field is completely absurd. Becoming a Grey Warden is an honor and a privilege, not a reward for the cruel acts Loghain has unleashed upon Ferelden, it's King and it's people.

There would be no Fereldan without Loghain.

Everything he did, was *for* Fereldan and its people.

Cailan has no such claims. All he is, is some guy whose father happened to be Maric.

I allowed Loghain a hero's death, because a nation needs its history and its heroes. Often, the truth is less important than the symbol. Heh, look at Christianity. Jeus is still depicted as a white European man.

 

Alistair Disapproves (-100)

Alistair has left your party.

[Tikkidew]

Alistair Disapproves (-100)

Alistair has left your party.

lol :)

 

Cailan was a fool. I thought so the very first time I played the game. "This is the King of this country? You can't be serious!!" I thought to myself. I thought he was a naive nincompoop. If Loghain would have just said "you're a fool" and got out of dodge before the battle even began (and not waiting till the last second), my opinion of him would be drastically different. That was just cruel.

 

I like him as a character. He's very deep and complicated (most villains in good stories are). He's the character I love to hate. I role play so he never lives ... but, my newest Character is turning out kinda devious, so that may change.

 

One character I DO hate is Arlessa Isolde. Sorry Connor, but ever since I found out you could slap the heck out of her if you killed him, he's pretty much doomed in my game. lol

[brokenergy]

Yes Cailan was a fool but he was doing what was best for his country, then so is Alistair (must run in the family) . Loghain, however good he was could not comprehend the fact that someone was taking all the power away from him so killing him in the battlefield kills two birds with one stone. He could not calcuate that you survived the battle and would kill him. Loghain is definitely on my villian list.

[DarkeWolf]

yeah, I think the general consensus is that Cailen was a twit.

All said, Maric wasnt one of the brightest bulbs in the box. Says something about genetics....but yeah, they just got worse with breeding. Kinda goes to answer the question of if the godchild was Alistaire's kid...no worries, he won't be smart enough to lace his boots on LOL.

 

Ya know, all said, I think the thing that absolutely pisses me off the MOST about the ending is getting my map locked. Now that I've started playing around with Winter Forge, I wanna equip some of the guys that are in my finished game, and I can't because I cant get to where some of the damn scrolls are!

[DarkeWolf]

Ok, I had another thought about what we were talking about with Howe.

I will not disagree in the least that he wanted Highever, and that he so badly wanted to take the Couslands down. He was jealous of what they had, had gained, and thought that it was things that he deserved instead of them.

 

Its the timing of it tho, that smells fishy.

 

1) He pulls this right before the armies are supposed to march against the DS.

This saves a lot of manpower from going into that battle, that can later be used to side with Mac Tir after the coup.

he does it at a time when the king can be warned about it, but can't do anything about it. and well, obviously won't have a chance to do anything about it after the battle.

 

2) He takes out the current king's most loyal and most powerful supporter, right before the coup. The one family that is in the best position to oppose Loghain and to do so with the most effect.

 

On those two points I can't agree that Howe acted Alone when he took Highever. It's just too beneficial to Loghain's plot against the king.

[brokenergy]

No wonder Howe wanted Highever, it used to belong to relatives of his family before Flemeth kill the last descendant. I think Loghain planned this for a long time and used the battle as an opportunity to get rid of Cailan. Also Duncan noticed that Loghain was the one in control not Maric (in the Calling).

[DarkeWolf]

No wonder Howe wanted Highever, it used to belong to relatives of his family before Flemeth kill the last descendant. I think Loghain planned this for a long time and used the battle as an opportunity to get rid of Cailan. Also Duncan noticed that Loghain was the one in control not Maric (in the Calling).

 

oooooooo this I did NOT know!!!

Flemeth killed off most of Howe's kin!?!? Where's this at, I wanna read about that!!!

Hrm. My current playthrough hasn't gotten back to Howe yet. Maybe this time I'll let Morrigan take him out. Turn it into a family tradition :D