Defining a Complicated Mod??

[irezloe217]

I recently replied to a related thread, only to get a "cookie-cutter answer". And please don't read that as me knocking the helper's help, his links were indeed informative. The only thing was that the help was not direct, unfortunately.

 

I also know many people do not look at topics that are old and continue to get replies--possibly because they think someone else is offering help, or that it's an old conversation. So hopefully, a new thread with a topic-specific name and description will gather myself and my issue more attention and hopefully answers that directly help!

 

Again, I appreciate bben46's post and links, and don't want to sound like I'm knocking him. It's just a round-about solution in my eyes, and I see how it's supposed to "teach me" using simpler mods than what I'm told is a complicated mod that I'm trying.

 

Instead of quoting all my old posts, I'll re-type the nitty-gritty and see if anyone can help me.

 

• The mod I'm trying to use is "Karla" by Nec. http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18615#
  
• I'm not new to computers, or modding games. The modding done in Oblivion is a little different, and looks like it's a bit annoying though.
  
• This mod is specifically for my fiancee to use, so I appreciated the choice of trying other mods that are "simpler" but I'd really like to get this one to work for her.
  
• I've followed every instruction in the readme file, as well as the instructions in the mod's description on it's personal page.
  
• I have patched her game up to the latest patch, and do not have any expansions (KoN or Isles). I've also installed the unofficial patch as well.
  
• I've installed OBMM and used it to install the HGEC body that the mod uses, thinking it was dependent.
  
• Using OBMM I've read the data file for Karla, and found an awkward list I assume is scripting. At one point it references an E drive, and has forward "/" slashes as well, which I assume are in-active lines?
  

 

So in closing, from bben46's post on the other thread I posted in ( http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?showto...68818&st=10 ) I'm assuming what makes or defines a complicated mod is "Dependancies" on other, "simpler" mods. Unfortunately, I know of no list--nor can find--that tells me what else I need to install for Karla to work on her machine.

 

If anyone could be of assistance, I'd greatly appreciate it.

[DavidBudreck]

The first thing you need to do is be very specific about what is going wrong. "Not working" can mean almost anything.

 

Does the game crash when trying to start? Is the savegame not available? Does she look wrong? What?

 

 

 

-Edit-

 

Just for the heck of it, I downloaded and tried this mod because the character is beautiful; I can see why you want her. The mod worked find for me. So, what was it specifically that isn't working for you?

 

I do not use OBMM or anything like that. I just copied and pasted the Meshes Folder, Textures folder, and the .esp into my data folder, and placed the savegame in my save games folder.

 

 

-Edit-

 

I just read your post from the previous thread. It sounds like you may be getting hung up with the error message. It warns you that there are resources missing.

 

What this actually means, is that the mod list you are using does not EXACTLY match the mod list that was active at the time the character was saved. This is indeed a standard warning and can be ignored.

 

This happens a lot with saved game files.

 

Theoretically, modders that create save games should disable all mods except the Nec-Character_Karla.esp, but nobody ever does; everybody is too lazy, and since the error messages are just a harmless nuisance, nobody really worries about it.

 

You probably got this mod working a long time ago but just didn't realize it.

 

 

One thing I would highly recommend, is to make a save the moment you are able to in the game, before moving or turning, or anything. If you get any more message boxes, wait 10 to 15 more seconds, then make another save.

 

Keep these tucked off to the side so that you can always go back to them if you want to start over again.

[irezloe217]

Actually, once I load the Karla save, the game crashes on loading screen. So I can't technically use the mod, to my knowledge.

 

Activating the mod, I don't see it anywhere on the races screen, or anything, which to me is really bizarre. I figured it would be as simple as you stated, extracting everything properly and activating the .esp file...but it's good to know what the error is like. And I also didn't use OBMM the first time I tried to use the mod. I had installed it because I had issues installing a body mod (thought it might be a dependent) that was "OBMM Ready". I am glad to know what the error means though, thank you.

 

The specific process that happens when I try to play the game is this:

I load the loader.

I make sure the data file is checked.

I hit play.

I load saved game for Nec-Karla.

Game gives me error, and I tell it to screw off.

The loading screen/bar fills up about 1/3 and the game stops responding. Sigh.

[DavidBudreck]

Can you tell me what mods you have installed?

 

A crashing game the way you are describing is usually indicative of a missing "Master File". These end in .esm instead of .esp. Is "Oblivion.esm" checked? Maybe that is the problem; the game won't play without it.

 

Or, you don't have the Nec-Character_Karla.esp checked. I know that you've said a thousand times that this is checked, but just be sure. It's the easy things that are easiest to miss.

 

Or, in the case of custom races, missing meshes. Make sure all the meshes are in their proper folder by examining the folder structure contained in the archive you downloaded.

 

If you are trying to create your own character from scratch using his race, it will be named "Nec Mystic Elf". I was able to do this as well (the default face you get with this race is really ugly, by the way).

[irezloe217]

Oblivion .esm is checked. Nec-Character_Karla.esp is checked as well.

And I agree, sometimes the simple stuff is what screws things up. That's why Step 1 is always "Is it plugged in?"...can't tell you how many times that solves issues.

 

Anyway, from the start when I ONLY had Karla, I had this same issue. I got the HGEC Fighter Body mod, and it was checked as well.

 

I'm going to assume since you and I downloaded the same mod from the same source that the meshes are in the perfectly fine places regarding folder/file structure, as I moved NOTHING around and put stuff where I was told to put it...in Oblivion\Data. But since step one, with only the Karla mod, it threw this issue which baffles me.

[Jenrai]

If Karla is a Mystic Elf, chances are you don't actually have an add-on with the Mystic Elf Race installed. Its not a 'vanilla' race, meaning its not a race that ships with the game. The Readme should tell you what mods were used to create the charector. If not, look for Rens Beauty Pack or COBL, but be warned, COBL is in itself a complex mod, that can change a lot of features in the game, and off the top of my head I believe you also need the COBL Races Res pack.

 

I've not seen the mod myself (don't tend to use saved games - I use Face Gen to make my own toons) but there aren't many mods beyond that with the ability to actually kill a saved game before it loads - usually you'd just get the missing content warning, or meshes/textures would be awol when you loaded the toon, and that would be that.

 

Jen

[DavidBudreck]

Karla is NOT a complicated mod. The author has taken care of everything, including the custom race, hair, head, etc., in the ESP.

 

I have been trying to replicate your issue, and can't.

 

I first deleted the meshes and textures. VERY funky, purple skin and no head, but no crash either.

 

I then tried disabling the ESP to see what would happen. That did crash, but not the way you are describing. Mine got all the way into the game, but then crashed when it started to try to render the character.

 

So, that brings me back to a missing Master File. When EVER what you are describing has happened to me, it is ALWAYS because of a missing Master file.

 

This is an article from BBen about how to post a mod order. We Need to look at what you've got.

 

How to post a Load order list article

http://www.tesnexus.com/articles/article.php?id=295

 

 

Can you start a game with the Nec-Karla.esp enabled, but not select the Karla savegame?

Can you select the Nec Mystic Elf class if you start a new game from scratch (Nec-Karla.esp enabled)?

 

 

I should have thought of this earlier, but is your game patched to the latest version? Most mods won't work anymore unless it is.

[Maigrets]

I just downloaded this myself out of interests sake because I don't use save games either. I make my own characters, but it is also a race mod so you can create your own face and character separate to Karla. You don't need the save at all unless you want that specific face.

 

As David Budreck says it works as intended. I started a new game and character selecting the race from the list of races a you'd normally do. Then I loaded the Karla save game and it worked as well. And yes, she is stunning, so I think I'll keep the race and make my own individual character.

 

I also have every hair pack that exists installed to customize other people's races, so I can select a number of different hair styles besides the one supplied. As Nec says in his Readme you can use them if they are installed. You don't activate the esps for the other hair mods where they have them though as this will seriously cause issues. You must install them as instructed otherwise though using only the meshes and textures and keeping the folder structure intact.

 

There is a large list of mods active in the save but as mentioned all you need do at the message regarding missing content is click OK and make a new save. All of the references to the other mods should be gone, but you can also make a couple of saves as already suggested to be on the safe side.

 

I read your old thread as well as this one and one thing I haven't seen mentioned (or I missed it) is which operating system the computer you're trying to get the save working on is using...Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7. If it's not XP you need to read Bben's help topics for Vista since I use Windows XP.

 

There are no dependencies to this mod. Everything is included except the body meshes which you have installed. Also I don't know what you mean about checking the HGEC Fighter mod. It doesn't have an esp. It's just meshes to change the shape of the body, but it seems you already have this in place.

 

* Using OBMM I've read the data file for Karla, and found an awkward list I assume is scripting. At one point it references an E drive, and has forward "/" slashes as well, which I assume are in-active lines?

 

What does this mean? The only way you can read the data file is in the Construction Set. I've made and released several races myself so I don't know what you're getting at with this part.

 

There is no scripting in this mod, but some of the mods that are present in the save game do have scripts, and there are a lot of them. However it's nothing to be concerned about. I Install all of my games including Oblivion to my D: drive so any reference to an E or any other drive is meaningless and I don't know here you saw that.

 

I also install ALL of my mods manually, unless the only download option is OMOD supplied by the author and then for my own purposes I often extract them anyway to their original state so I can check out what's in the folders.

 

Many people will tell you to only use OBMM and convert all your mods to OMOD, but I think every mod user should know how to install mods manually before using other utilities. That's my opinion though, but it also makes it easier to troubleshoot problems and knowing the basics first before using other methods is a good way to start out.

 

I suggest to always unzip the mod you download if it's an archive (other than OMOD) into a separate temp folder on your desktop or wherever and then move the files to your data directory. That way the files will go to the correct places. Check first that any mod you use doesn't also come inside another Data folder because placing that in your Oblivion/Data folder will create the problem of the game not being able to find the files it needs. Essentially you'll have a data folder within the game data folder.

 

This mod doesn't do that however. So all that's needed is to move the esp, meshes and textures folders to your game data directory and put the save in the saves folder. If you get a message about overwriting anything this is also OK since it usually means there are already meshes and textures folders present. Nothing will be removed.

 

One thing I did though when I used this mod was to go to Utilities/Save Manager on the right side of OBMM and select to "Sync Active Plugins". This shows you which mods were used at the time of creating the save. I see CM Partners is in there among many others which does require a master files (ESM). I don't use CM Partners and I expected that to be an issue but the save still worked.

 

There's also at least one other race mod in that save plus other mods, which activated for me, since I have them, using the Save Manager method. This is why you need to make a new save immediately after loading the save game to clear the unwanted data.

 

I started the game using OBMM which is what I always do for convenience sake since I have a number of different characters and they often use different mods. So only one race mod is active at any one time which also avoids problems, especially with hair and eyes.

 

Doing it this way also loads OBSE since I use it as well.

 

Jenrai mentioned the Mystic Elf Race. This has nothing to do with the Karla mod so it doesn't apply here. The old Mystic Elves are part of Ren's Beauty Pack and also Cosmetic Compilation among others. There is also no need at all to install COBL if you don't want it. It is confusing the issue to suggest it.

 

Hopefully, you can get some useful info from what I've posted and get the game working with Karla. :smile:

 

Edited several times for spelling... :blush: