lack of religious importance

[zprospero]

But doesn't the appearance of the

Avatar of Akatosh

at the end

of the Main Quest confirm at least his existence?

 

I think in Oblivion it's more refusing to worship rather than a refusal to believe.

 

Also, it occurs to me that this topic allows me to make a shameless plug

for my mod detailed under the New Daedric Prince thread.

 

In my mod you create a new Daedric Prince in the first half, currently being developed,

and in the second half, you start a cult for him, and will be going around converting people

and also having an all out war with some of the other gods.

[kieranfoy]

But doesn't the appearance of the

Avatar of Akatosh

at the end

of the Main Quest confirm at least his existence?

 

Not really. It could probably, like the temple altars, be managed with reglar magic.

Consider, the rightful Emperor (and that has pwer, king and the land are one, and all) sacrfices himself to save his people, shatter ing a giant soulgem containing the souls of ALL the Emperor's since Alessia, releasing their powers as well as the power of the Septim bloodline... there's enough magicka in that to make a big flaming dragon without gods at all.

 

[Vagrant0]

Well, put simply, there aren't any parallels between how we think of religion and how religion is used in TES games. In Oblivion, religion is used in a very similar context as to how religion is used in Stargate as a means of controlling the peoples conquered by the Go'uld.

 

It's not exactly something which is open to debate and trying to go against it would undoubtedly be a fatal move. Most religious conversion was not brought about by open discussion of terms, but rather because a conquering force demanded it, and killed any who thought differently. It's also rather hard to dispute the existence or worthiness of a deity when they, or someone acting in their name has had you bound, put a rope around your neck, and has killed the first few who decided to be martyrs.

 

In the TES universe, the entire purpose of the Tribunal was to establish a group of accepted deities, and kill, jail, or banish any who was not willing to accept those ways. The fact that it's a system which is indoctrinated in most of the people, and backed up by fact only makes it that much more stable.

[stars2heaven]

I agree with what kieranfoy said, how is a god defined in Oblivion other than a being who possesses alot of power? A rather typical aspect of the definition. But where is the power derived? From miraculous or extaordinary abilities. The abilities that are attributed to various gods in the real world are all achievable by various creatures in Oblivion, and its almost always through the use of magic. So Id say what makes a god in Oblivion is ones access and ability to make use of a great deal of magic. I could see someone making a good case that such a being is'nt a god at all. Atleast not one that ought to be worshiped simply because they possess great magical ability, though anyone might want to make friends with such a being.

 

Anyways, I like the more simple aproach already mentioned about there being more diverse and opposing religious factions. This kind of thing could go in so many different directions with good results.

 

@Vagrant0's post

 

I think what you said there would create a very good reason for someone to try to begin an opposing religious, or non religious, faction.

[zprospero]

A Dwemer based faction would be interesting.

 

Vivec wrote that they worshiped Reason and Logic,

but capitalizing them was probably poetic license

and it was meant as concepts not entities.

 

They didn't worship Lorkhan, either. They merely

used an artifact associated with him.

 

Azura worshipers would probably have a problem

with people who would follow the Dwemer's religion,

or rather absence of one.

[kieranfoy]

Azura worshipers would probably have a problem

with people who would follow the Dwemer's religion,

or rather absence of one.

I would think the fundamentalists of EVERY religion on Tamriel would dislike that. Religions tend to get threatened when someone brings up the option of just not believing.

 

Such a thing would probably be popular among the mages guild. They're rather like modern day scientists, and as such are probably more likely t be sceptical, and prefer to honor logic and reason.

 

And, maybe Vivec meant they literally worshipped (or pretended to worship) Reason. Maybe they spoke of a personification of Reason, like we speak of Father Time, and Death (or like the Culte de Raison in Revolutionary France).

[zprospero]

Well, yes, but it's mentioned that some people believe Azura personally wiped

out the Dwemer, and thus her followers would take more offense to it than most.

 

The mages guild, particularly with the fact that a Dwemer orrery is in the Arcane University,

would seem to be the place that something like this would proliferate. It is ironic though, since

I think Dwemer were said to dislike the use of magic, though they did have wizards.

 

It could have been that Reason and Logic were personifications like that, but remember

that was Vivec that wrote it, not the Dwemer, and he's a poet and a liar. It is doubtful he

understood how the Dwemer considered religion and was merely making their concepts

into god concepts so it would be easier to understand.

 

Regardless, it would definitely be an opposing faction to the existing ones, and

a lore correct way of introducing a non-belief faction into the game.

[MetaDowN]

Sneaky way to bring religion into the forums... :down:

[kieranfoy]

Sneaky way to bring religion into the forums... :down:

If you think we're breaking the rules, report us.

 

Vagrant, AN ADMIN, seemed to have no problem with it.

[zprospero]

Well, I admit we may have strayed here and there, but the main idea of this thread

seems to be more the creation of new factions based on the in-game religions.

 

I personally believe that Bethesda's choice of not adding more was a good one,

since any addition runs the risk of resembling an existing belief and then would

appear to be commenting on it.

 

However, we are talking about mods which are entirely optional content.

Besides, I believe we are just discussing the best way to achieve something like this.

 

I'm not an atheist, but if someone wants to make a mod that allows them

to forsake gods in real life and in-game then I will try to suggest the best

way to achieve this that would be lore correct, because I'm like that.

 

But any mod made to add any faction would be

optional, just as the reading of this topic is optional.