Independent New Vegas base mod-Viva NV

[devinpatterson]

WIP. A mod to implement the end game slides for the Independent New Vegas faction ending.

[devinpatterson]

The only alteration I'd like to see is implementing the 'Brotherhood occupies HELIOS One' thing, which seems to have been cut very late in development;

Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly here brother. The end slides *do* illustrate the BOS taking back HELIOS One under the independent and under the NCR (if no truce is signed) ending.

 

As for the rest of the Mojave, our immediate priorities with this mod should be -

I really appreciate your enthusiasm brother, but this isn't my first rodeo.

 

2) Removing all NCR and Legion characters from the game

Victory at Hoover does not automatically grant extermination of NCR or Legion forces. The reach of the independent ending is open to interpretation (and I'll repost this in the "new developer thread", see later in the msg), because only Camp McCarran of all the NCR held locations is detailed. But there are various clues we can use to piece things together. Hoover dam end slides, and the various treatise and declarations issued by House make a guide for what is possible in the independent ending (possible as in options for the player to choose).

 

I'll go into that more in the new thread, but essentially Hoover, new vegas and "Outer Vegas" immediately become houses domain following the battle of hoover dam, and the order of withdrawal list these additional locations;

 

"New Vegas and its surrounding territories" includes (but is not limited to) Hoover Dam, McCarran International Airport, HELIOS One, and the El Dorado substation. If these conditions are met water and electricity will continue to flow (at a price) to teh NCR core region. This should be one of our Ind options.

 

Assuming the NCR comply with the above, there are many NCR locations still in use in the Mojave (all the ranger stations, Mojave outpost, 188, sloan, boulder city, etc). Some are iffy and butt up against the "outer vegas" area. Long story short, we're not going to see the NCR immediately vacating the Mojave (nor the Legion) as an automatic effect of a ind victory at Hoover.

 

Further conquest of Legion, NCR and BOS locations are possible in the extended version of the mod, but shouldn't occupy the basic mod.

 

We may or may not want to include the restocking of locations cleared by the courier in the base mod. Perhaps we should decide it on a individual, location by location basis.

[devinpatterson]

I'll start combing through the main thread and see what we've already developed that can be brought over to the base mod. In general I believe (in regard to locations), Hoover and The Strip will be my higher priorities.

[Devilman1975]

Re: Strip and Hoover Dam

 

Here's my thoughts on the Strip and Hoover Dam.

 

The Strip

 

Gommorah

 

If the player has chosen to ignore the Omertas in the main game or assisted Nero and Big Sal with their plans then we can expect the Omertas to carry out an attack on the Strip during the battle at Hoover Dam. I'm sure that the Securitrons themselves could take care of the Omertas but not without some losses (destroyed securitrons and dead NCR tourists) and some bad press for Independent New Vegas. If Nero and Sal were stopped then Cachino can continue running the place until an opportunity comes up later on to replace him.

 

The Lucky 38

 

I would like to see the option of opening up the Lucky 38 to the public as a casino and hotel come up at some point. I would also like to suggest reserving a floor where the player can set up a small museum dedicated to the Courier (ego boost and tourist attraction). Certain game quests can trigger certain items up on display and I would suggest plenty of mannequins for displaying things like Caesar's armor or other cool armor and weapons from other mods. I would also like to gain access to House's treasury and see a saferoom/vault to store all the money coming in. Gold bars can be scripted to appear on the shelves after x amount of caps has been put into a safe.

 

The Tops

 

I don't foresee any major changes at the Tops in the Independent mod. I would maybe suggest adding more talent scout missions to add a bit more variety for the Aces Theatre.

 

The Ultra-Luxe

 

If the quest Beyond the Beef was completed in Mortimer's favor then I suspect that the NCR will warn it's citizens not to do business there in regards to the missing NCR tourists and investigator. I would expect a reduced cut from that casino under this outcome. If Mortimer was stopped then I don't see any change for the Ultra Luxe. I would also like to see the option of hunting down Mortimer if he wasn't killed earlier on in the game. Gunderson would most likely put a bounty on Mortimer's head.

 

Dealing with Heck Gunderson at the end of the quest should also have some effect on Viva New Vegas. Normally I would gleefully shoot somebody like him but I've got to consider the bigger picture and the supply of food from the NCR so I convince him to continue sending brahmin meat to Vegas. Relations between the player and the NCR at this point would already be somewhat bitter and it helps having a brahmin baron indebted to me. Whatever happens to Gunderson I think he should be put on a bus (removed from the game) considering his parting comments on how much he hates Vegas.

 

Vault 21

 

Sarah will probably continue to run Vault 21 as a hotel but I think that she may also invite the vault residents who opposed House's takeover to come back home. Sarah may also ask the player for financial assistance to restore the vault to it's former state which would be a good opportunity to expand Vault 21.

 

MichaelAngelos

 

Michaelangelo will probably do well with plenty of work coming his way but I think it would be a good idea if he has somebody who would go out into the wastes and take more photos for him. He can't expect the Courier to find the time to take photos when he/she's got a city to run.

 

New Vegas Train Station

 

If the Monorail was bombed during Hoover Dam by ignoring the quest I Put a Spell on You then access to Camp McCarran should be closed off until the monorail is repaired. If the Fiends managed to take over Camp McCarran during the battle of Hoover Dam then the monorail should be powered down to prevent the Fiends from getting into the Strip. If the monorail sabotage was stopped and all Fien leaders killed then I would expect the NCR troops inside to start packing their bags.

 

NCR Embassy

 

I would let the NCR keep that small dumpy building they call an embassy with couple of soldiers stationed outside. I would remove the NCR from the military police building though and put in a few Securitrons with the cop face. If you are looking for something to replace the NCR flag with then I think the flag found on Doc Mitchell's house would be a good replacement. I assuming here that it's the original flag for the Nevada state.

 

Hoover Dam

 

I could envision the Dam being mainly occupied by securitrons and a few maintenance bots. I don't know if you still have plans to add a settlement to Hoover Dam but I hope it remains as an optional choice for players who don't want to see a new settlement built in that area. I would suggest keeping the area that the Boomers destroyed in the final battle in it's destroyed state and not be repaired until the player gets the Sloan quarry and trains running again.

 

Re: Start of Viva New Vegas (Independent/NCR Withdrawal)

 

In regards to the start of Viva New Vegas I think that it should start of with the player trying to resolve the other conflicts or emergencies (mentioned on NCR Emergency Broadcast) that happened during the battle of Hoover Dam. A lot of it would depend on vanilla quests being completed first so I'll go into each one.

 

Camp Forlorn Hope - If the player did not assist the NCR earlier on then it will fall to the Legion. The player can either order the securitron army to remove the Legion or deal with them him/herself. Otherwise I expect to see the NCR to start packing up the tents and move out of the area.

 

Camp Golf - If the Misfits were not properly trained or motivated then Camp Golf will fall to the Legion. Again the choice is send in securitrons or deal with them yourself. If the Misfits were trained or encouraged by the player then the NCR will hold onto Camp Golf only to start packing up. This would be a good place to make an offer to the original Nevada Desert Rangers who were absorbed into the NCR to stay in the Mojave and the chance to put together their old group. I would let them use Camp Golf as their new headquarters. It's a bit early for army building at this point but you've got a professional fighting force who can possibly train up recruits ready to use when we get to that part.

 

The Strip - The attack on the Strip by the Omertas that I mentioned earlier can be resolved by the securitrons alone but I can imagine that the player will be asked to deal with the aftermath.

 

Novac - The Legion will attack Novac during the final Battle at Hoover Dam. If the player has helped the Bright Followers earlier on then I can imagine a small group who missed the space flight will assist the residents of Novac by helping evacuate to the Repconn Test Site. The player may be able to assist the Bright Brotherhood evacuate the Novac settlers by fighting against the Legion and buying time until more securitrons arrive.

 

Freeside - There is mention of riots happening in Freeside during the battle of Hoover Dam. If the Kings made peace with the NCR then they will manage to contain the riots. Otherwise I would have to send in securitrons in for crowd control which could result in some negative rep. One way to end the riot is getting Mr New Vegas to put out a news report that the battle of Hoover Dam is over. The player would be expected to make a speech later on to the NCR and New Vegas press.

 

After all these events have been dealt with the player can finally relax and have his/her victory party at the Lucky 38. Clicking on a bottle of champagne or wine can activate a small time skip where the player can wake up with a serious hangover before having to meet with the other casino bosses and NCR ambassador. Vanilla companions can be moved to default or new locations.

 

There is also the issue of Yes Man being inactive while he's upgrading his systems at this point in the game. What I would suggest is maybe using your Marilyn Securitron mod as a temporary character who can serve Yes Man's role as the player's aide.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Devilman1975

[devinpatterson]

Actually, while we're at it with this mod, could you quickly whip up a way to have the Brotherhood at the Dam without being forced to sign the truce between NCR and the Brotherhood? That always felt awkward to me.

Sure we can take a look at that. Go ahead and post a new request and I'll hit you up over there.

 

 

I think that it should be left up to the player to choose whether to form an alliance with the NCR or not - I know that many players would want it, and many wouldn't

 

For the second alpha, I would take a binary decision made at some point (maybe through the player's final dialogue with Yes Man) as to the state of the NCR

We do indeed have that for the extended mod and it's based on some of the current House in game content;

 

1. The player pledges to honor the New Vegas Treaty along with it's obligations and responsibilities. This is what we've referred to in the thread as a NCR friendly ind ending. It is the least change with the addition of some Securitrons to various areas. It doesn't have the revenue stream of the order of withdrawal, but retains an actual alliance with the NCR and benefits from the NCR reinforcing NV securitron forces.

 

2. The player issues a letter of withdrawal, this is the closest to the default ending and would mirror exactly the military situation in the House ending. It provides substantial income and a begrudging neutral acceptance by the NCR (out of necessity of hoover's resources), but the loss of NCR military support and reinforcement.

 

3. The player issues a declaration of war (not in game). All NCR forces are hostile.

 

There is also a 4th option, "Offer to permit annexation" that is related to cut content, but I'm not sure if we ever came down on any agreement to use it.

 

These choices have particular importance and implications for the base mod. Even though it doesn't mirror the end game slides, I think it would still be an exception we should include in the base mod for a couple of reasons. 1. it's a lot easier for me to build upon (extended mod), if we include these choices from the beginning (base mod), than if we have to disable then re-enable NCR personal. 2. It preserves at least some basic degrees of freedom that should be present in the independent version

 

Regarding factional locations, I think that the abandoned NCR facilities should be occupied by various factions; Camp McCarran would likely be guarded by Securitrons (or maybe throw some Boomers around there), HELIOS One would have the Brotherhood there, El Dorado would be covered by either Securitrons or Brotherhood,

I think that sounds good under the order of withdrawal except for Helios & El Dorado, (both listed in teh order). I believe they will be occupied by securitrons.

 

Under the continuation of the treaty Helios one's occupancy would seem to determined by whether a truce was signed between the NCR & brotherhood (no truce, then BOS holds it. Truce then NCR holds it). Comp McCarran would be retained by the NCR as per the treaty. The El Dorado power station would be occupied by securitrons (I would think).

 

Under the declaration of war it would look like the order of withdrawal.

 

and Camp Golf and Crimson Caravan HQ would both be occupied by traders (maybe the Followers could have a presence at Camp Golf too - they have a camp nearby, after all). It would feel wrong to have all those vast former NCR areas suddenly abandoned.

I think the Crimson Caravan should simply continue business as usual under all conditions. It's primarily a commercial caravan company even if it does have deep (non official) ties to teh NCR gov.

 

I believe that Camp golf could be retained by the NCR under all 3 choices, but they do bump up pretty close to that "Outer Vegas" zone, so it's debatable.

 

I believe that Cottonwood Cove should be razed to the ground and all Legion kicked out of there, although others might disagree.

 

I think it's possible we could have an influx of retreating legion from the battle at hoover, and thus a refreash of new legion to kill (if the location had been previously cleared). Because one of the gates from the fort used to lead directly to cottonwood cove (it's been opened up in teh mod).

 

Also, it could be interesting to record some dialogue at those border locations you mentioned (Boulder City, Sloan, 188, etc.) about how tensions are high, and the NCR inhabitants of those locations are always nervous at the Securitrons rolling past. A lot of potential for expansion there.

 

definitely

 

Not sure what should be done with Hoover Dam, but I'm thinking that it should involve a fair few Securitrons to stand guard over it and some engineers from various factions (most likely Brotherhood Scribes, but the Boomers are also a possibility) in the interior cells.

 

Yeah definitely a substantial force of securitrons. I'd say roughly equal to the number of NCR staff that were previously stationed there. Under withdrawal & war they will be alone, under the continuation of the treaty the current NCR staff will remain.

 

I don't think boomers or BOS will be new engineers, it's simply too high value a military target to accept a foreign faction in a high security enviornment, but rather under withdrawal and war, bots (some robco protectrons and Mr. Handys perhaps?) may take over maintenance.

 

 

Oh, and something important - we're going to need to change the Gamblers from the NCR faction to the Vegas faction, or else we're going to run into some pretty obvious problems.

 

Yeah under the treaty there won't be a neeed to change them per se.

Under withdrawal NCR military are gone, and civilian faction are friendly.

Under war, neither NCR military or civilians would likely be in NV.

[devinpatterson]

Gommorah

 

If the player has chosen to ignore the Omertas in the main game or assisted Nero and Big Sal with their plans then we can expect the Omertas to carry out an attack on the Strip during the battle at Hoover Dam. I'm sure that the Securitrons themselves could take care of the Omertas but not without some losses (destroyed securitrons and dead NCR tourists) and some bad press for Independent New Vegas. If Nero and Sal were stopped then Cachino can continue running the place until an opportunity comes up later on to replace him.

It does look like the uprising is put down pretty quick if you have the upgraded securitrons

 

"With Mr. House out of the picture, part of the Securitron army was diverted to The Strip to keep order. Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life."

 

In a way it's kind of hard to imagine taking the independent route without upgrading the securitrons. I wonder how many players actually chose that course of action....probably a very small minority.

 

I was thinking in the base mod of just showing the effects of the riots aftermath, instead of actually scripting out the encounter (which we would do with teh extended mod). What would be your opinion on that course of action?

 

The Lucky 38

 

I would like to see the option of opening up the Lucky 38 to the public as a casino and hotel come up at some point. I would also like to suggest reserving a floor where the player can set up a small museum dedicated to the Courier (ego boost and tourist attraction). Certain game quests can trigger certain items up on display and I would suggest plenty of mannequins for displaying things like Caesar's armor or other cool armor and weapons from other mods. I would also like to gain access to House's treasury and see a saferoom/vault to store all the money coming in. Gold bars can be scripted to appear on the shelves after x amount of caps has been put into a safe.

I think expanding the lucky 38 and opening it up as a public casino is definitely a big attraction of the mod, but (and I'm probably going to be saying this quite a bit in this thread, something of a broken record) I think things like resource management, revenue etc is really for the extended mod. We're just looking at effects that happen relatively shortly after the 2nd battle of hoover, for the base mod.

 

I'd also repost that segment above in teh extended mod thread (the orginal ind thread) so I can start working on it in parallel.

 

The Tops

 

I don't foresee any major changes at the Tops in the Independent mod. I would maybe suggest adding more talent scout missions to add a bit more variety for the Aces Theatre.

In re: to the talent scout, sounds good for the extended mod

 

The Ultra-Luxe

If the quest Beyond the Beef was completed in Mortimer's favor then I suspect that the NCR will warn it's citizens not to do business there in regards to the missing NCR tourists and investigator. I would expect a reduced cut from that casino under this outcome. If Mortimer was stopped then I don't see any change for the Ultra Luxe.

sounds good.

 

I would also like to see the option of hunting down Mortimer if he wasn't killed earlier on in the game. Gunderson would most likely put a bounty on Mortimer's head.

I think that one would probably go in teh extended mod too

 

Dealing with Heck Gunderson at the end of the quest should also have some effect on Viva New Vegas. Normally I would gleefully shoot somebody like him but I've got to consider the bigger picture and the supply of food from the NCR so I convince him to continue sending brahmin meat to Vegas. Relations between the player and the NCR at this point would already be somewhat bitter and it helps having a brahmin baron indebted to me. Whatever happens to Gunderson I think he should be put on a bus (removed from the game) considering his parting comments on how much he hates Vegas.

So perhaps simulated (the scarcity) by some additional dialog or barks of resturant staff or tourists complaining about a lack of available beef? Maybe in the extended ver (where our quests will happen) the rancher in Novac might be convinced to provide some from his small herd.

 

Vault 21

MichaelAngelos

Sounds good, but since they're quests should probably be in the ext mod.

 

OK catch up with the rest after work brother.

[Devilman1975]

Here's the link for the NCR Emergency Broadcast wiki page http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR_Emergency_Radio_%28Broadcast%29 since it covers events that happen during the Battle of Hoover Dam.

 

I forgot to mention that the NCR Embassy is bombed if the Omertas' coup was not stopped in the main game. I wouldn't want to see the NCR Embassy turned into a pile of rubble but killing off all the occupants would reflect this event perfectly. If the Omertas were stopped then I would still like to see Ambassador Crocker removed from the game. If the NCR loses Hoover Dam and everything else I just can't see Crocker being able to keep his job. I think this would be a good opportunity to create a replacement ambassador that can also be used for the NCR and House mod. I can imagine that a NCR victory at Hoover Dam could result in Crocker landing a cushy job as a senator in the Core Region.

[devinpatterson]

Here's the link for the NCR Emergency Broadcast wiki page http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR_Emergency_Radio_(Broadcast) since it covers events that happen during the Battle of Hoover Dam.

 

Cool :smile: I will check that out

 

I forgot to mention that the NCR Embassy is bombed if the Omertas' coup was not stopped in the main game. I wouldn't want to see the NCR Embassy turned into a pile of rubble but killing off all the occupants would reflect this event perfectly.

Weirdness. So this ties in with their coup;

 

"The Omertas only care about protecting or improving the power they have at their command. Showing a facade that they appear to be perfectly content running the Gomorrah, the Omertas have entered into an agreement with Caesar's Legion to attack The Strip at the same time the Legion makes their assault on Hoover Dam. Putting more stock in Legion propaganda than the management practices of Mr. House, and wanting to use the Legion to springboard their power base, coupled with their confidence that the second Battle of Hoover Dam will draw the attention of Mr. House's Securitrons, the Omertas believe they will have no problem taking over The Strip."

 

Yeah no problem to damage the building (anything from a blown out portion of a wall on up, but we can keep it modest if you like).

 

If the Omertas were stopped then I would still like to see Ambassador Crocker removed from the game.

Let me double check on Crocker and the notes. I think the order of withdrawal is submitted to Oliver (never played the house ending), but I'm not sure....it or one of the other letters might be submitted to Crocker. If that's the case I'd like to keep him in the base mod, at least long enough to deliver the documents. But with a non NCR friendly ind victory, I think he along with the whole NCR embassy staff are shipped out. The order of withdrawal precludes any military personal and without MPs I dont think the NCR would keep the embassy open (even if they had the option, which I think the order implies they don't).

 

With a NCR friendly I could see him hanging around (at least for some time while relations are "normalized". With the declaration of war, he'd be gone as well.

 

Also if three options aren't enough for the independent (order of withdrawal, abiding by the treaty of new vegas & declaration of war) we can also mirror the permit of annexation from the cut house version (NCR annexation in 1 year, full immunity, citizen of the NCR and sole proprietor of the strip).

[Devilman1975]

 

Let me double check on Crocker and the notes. I think the order of withdrawal is submitted to Oliver (never played the house ending), but I'm not sure....

 

House's order of withdrawal was addressed to whoever the highest ranking officer was in the area to pass on to the NCR Government. If General Oliver was not around at the time then the order would have been handed to Colonel Moore or Colonel Hsu instead.

 

 

 

The order of withdrawal precludes any military personal and without MPs I dont think the NCR would keep the embassy open (even if they had the option, which I think the order implies they don't).

 

Even if the NCR has a case of sour grapes against the player over losing Hoover Dam I think that closing the embassy would be a stupid move on their part. The player is not going to risk his/her life traveling to Shady Sands if he/she needs to negotiate with the NCR at some point in the future. Considering the fact that the NCR has to negotiate with the player for water and electricity from Hoover Dam, their companies like Crimson Caravans and Gun Runners will decide to remain in the Mojave area after Hoover Dam and also NCR tourists who get in trouble with the local authorities will need legal representation I think the idea of closing the embassy would go against the NCR's interests.

 

Also if three options aren't enough for the independent (order of withdrawal, abiding by the treaty of new vegas & declaration of war) we can also mirror the permit of annexation from the cut house version (NCR annexation in 1 year, full immunity, citizen of the NCR and sole proprietor of the strip).

 

As I've mentioned before in the main thread I vehemently oppose the idea of allowing the option for the NCR to annex Vegas in this mod. If I wanted the NCR to take Hoover Dam and Vegas then I would support the NCR in the main game. To use a comparison in the real world it's like the Scottish National Party in my country winning a yes vote in the upcoming independence referendum only to change their minds the next day and decide to have Scotland remain in the UK after all. Players have already committed to serving a chosen side when the battle of Hoover Dam starts and adding in this option is a waste of time.

 

The only way this annexation offer would work would be in the Independent/NCR war version where everything has gone wrong for the player and even the Three Families might try to convince the player to make the offer to the NCR since a war will lead to a lack of income. To be perfectly honest I think I would be happy to have all these options removed in the Independent version and just go for the default Independence NCR withdrawal which similar to what the developers had intended if they were allowed to extend the game post Hoover Dam. As for depriving the players of choice it should be reminded that the players already have a choice in determining the future of Vegas in the main game.

[thunderlord2200]

i just would like to add a great ending for this idea. since u took over NV u should be able to have his weath along with other things. im planing to kill off every NCR and legion in this walk threw. but right now im playing the goodie goodie even tho i plain to take over and kill everyone. but i hear the ending sucks for this =/

 

im keeping the BOS alive along with boomers and taking out all the houses. im going to keep the kings. i like them. xD

i might keep around the i did kill off the feinds main HD and all, even its leader... tobade theres noway to just get rid of them all together.

 

i plain to kill 1 or more casions off. mainly the white mask (eh? ) its where they eat the meat ) love the ablity to take it over to be rain by u same for the others...

 

along with the ablit to make a factory of the bots so ur power can never be questioned over NV state..

Edited May 25, 2014 by thunderlord2200