Difficulty Slider Woes

[Daethar]

btw, I found a goblin with 700 hitpoints on my way through the sewers the other day. My health is barely over 250. That lets me think they didn't do this leveled monster deal right.

Unless you installed a mod, it was a Goblin Warlord. They default to lv. 18 (@ 540 hp) and scale with you, so it's possible that it had 700hp at 20-something.

 

The scaling doesn't take into account your character's health, and rightly so - it's a composite of starting health, level, and END (over time). And since level is the only one of those things that will steadily increase over time, it's a fine value to scale off of.

 

I really don't understand all these complaints about difficulty - after the cakewalk that was Morrowind, this is a treat. I'd much rather have a challenge throughout than a tiny bit of a challenge for a handful of levels at the beginning of the game.

 

If you're having such a hard time, rethinking your character's skills can help greatly. If you don't take skills that level rapidly and don't help in combat (Acrobatics, Alchemy (somewhat), Athletics, Mercantile, Speechcraft...), your character is more likely to have the skills and equipment needed to overcome the game's challenges.

 

Well, this thread was more supposed to be about how the difficulty slider is messed up, but now I have helped deviate it off topic...ah well.

 

My point was, this goblin had over 700 hitpoints. The daedra I find have around 300-400. This goblin was harder to take out than most daedra.

 

As for my character, interestingly enough athletics is my lowest major skill. I up my endurance almost every level, and my blade and light armor skills are both my highest skills. I find ridiculously good equipment, but my daedric longsword doesn't do much against the 5 bandits in the cave who have the exact same equipment.

 

You think Morrowind was a cakewalk? Just curious, did you move the difficulty slider up to make it harder? Because I have a theory that people were not making the game as hard as it could've been and then they complain that it is too easy.

 

The Elder Scrolls has always represented, for me, a more realistic game instead of the rpg where you spam potions and level up to get to the next level of monsters who are as good as you. You know what, when I have faced 40+ Daedra, I would think that I've gotten good enough at dispatching them that it WOULD be ridiculously easy. I don't want to have to run away from every single monster I ever encounter if I don't want to die. That's not why I play the game, I play the game to see the story unfold.

 

Have you maxed your skills yet? Your attributes? I predict right now that the only thing Bethesda has accomplished, and I know I have said it many times before, is delaying the time before the game becomes very very easy. In fact, people are finding that you can beat the arena at level 5, that the main quests are easier at level 2 or 3 than level 20. I LIKE having a battle for my life against the grand champion of the arena, and in fact having to take a bit to recover because he is stronger than me. What I do not like is having two bandits have a field day with me at level 25 because they are also stronger than me. If you ask me, the world of Tamriel now has a ton more problems than Oblivion.

And recall all those mods for Morrowind? That introduced harder monsters to fight? That solved a great many problems of the game being too easy.

[jdarksun]

gah, tag issues. apologies. For some reason, it didn't like the last two tags.

 

Well, this thread was more supposed to be about how the difficulty slider is messed up, but now I have helped deviate it off topic...ah well.

/shrug, I thought everyone agreed it should have significantly more degrees. Having 10-20 different settings above and below "normal" (corresponding to a 5-10% increase/decrease in relative difficult) would make the most sense, from an absolute standpoint.

 

My point was, this goblin had over 700 hitpoints. The daedra I find have around 300-400. This goblin was harder to take out than most daedra.

Some daedra have fewer hp, some have more - Xivilai and the higher ranking Dremora scale with you, for example. It's a safe bet that they'd have more hp.

 

As for my character, interestingly enough athletics is my lowest major skill. I up my endurance almost every level, and my blade and light armor skills are both my highest skills. I find ridiculously good equipment, but my daedric longsword doesn't do much against the 5 bandits in the cave who have the exact same equipment.

Blunt is my highest skill. I even took Athletics, Alchemy, and Speechcraft as major skills. I don't have any serious trouble with what the game throws at me now, though I did when I let Alchemy and Speechcraft get *way* higher than my equipment.

 

Bandits generally don't give me much pause, especially in smaller numbers. Solo, it's block, counterattack, repeat. In groups, there rarely are more than two melee combatants, in which case I take turns sweeping / disarming the ones nearby until only the ranged ones are left. Mostly, though, humans don't pose as much threat as Dread Wraiths and various high-level daedra (in groups).

 

You think Morrowind was a cakewalk? Just curious, did you move the difficulty slider up to make it harder? Because I have a theory that people were not making the game as hard as it could've been and then they complain that it is too easy.

You're complaining that the game is too hard on the default setting. Morrowind was too easy (and yes, this is a widely held concept) on the default setting. I turned up Morrowind; I turn up almost every game, including Oblivion. You think Oblivion is difficult? Just curious, did you move the difficulty slider down to make it easier? Because I have a theory that people are not making the game as easy as it could've been and then complaining that it is too hard.

 

The Elder Scrolls has always represented, for me, a more realistic game instead of the rpg where you spam potions and level up to get to the next level of monsters who are as good as you.

Bolded for incredible silliness. It's a game set in a fantasy setting; clearly, reality has taken a back seat to fun already. Regardless, your (nor my) view is not the only view taken into account when Oblivion was designed. The Elder Scrolls have recently (Morrowind on - Daggerfall was a randomly generated nightmare, albeit with brilliant concepts) represented, for me, the pinnacle of Western RPGs. Before Morrowind it was Baldur's Gate, and before that Ultima.

 

You know what, when I have faced 40+ Daedra, I would think that I've gotten good enough at dispatching them that it WOULD be ridiculously easy.

Specious reasoning. When you have faced 40+ of a particular lower level creature, you do get good enough to dispatch them without trouble (rats, mud crabs, imps, etc). Only a handful of creatures in Oblivion are leveled, and they're there to provide a challenge - because steamrolling over Dagoth Ur's stronghold is no less realistic than creatures that can be as strong as your character.

 

I don't want to have to run away from every single monster I ever encounter if I don't want to die. That's not why I play the game, I play the game to see the story unfold.

So turn down the difficulty. Drop it to zero, steamroll over everything and see the story unfold. You'll drop 40+ Daedra ridiculously easily.

 

Have you maxed your skills yet? Your attributes?

No. And?

 

I predict right now that the only thing Bethesda has accomplished, and I know I have said it many times before, is delaying the time before the game becomes very very easy.

That's fine - delaying it from level 6 to level (theoretical) 36 is a very nice change in my book.

 

In fact, people are finding that you can beat the arena at level 5, that the main quests are easier at level 2 or 3 than level 20. I LIKE having a battle for my life against the grand champion of the arena, and in fact having to take a bit to recover because he is stronger than me.

...okay, that's totally contradictory, but whatever. Yes, because the arena and main quest consists of leveled content, it's possible to beat at lower levels. So what? Was it still a challenge?

 

quote: "What I do not like is having two bandits have a field day with me at level 25 because they are also stronger than me. If you ask me, the world of Tamriel now has a ton more problems than Oblivion."

So... you don't like difficult random encounters? You're sending all sorts of mixed signals here.

 

quote: "And recall all those mods for Morrowind? That introduced harder monsters to fight? That solved a great many problems of the game being too easy."

There are mods for Oblivion that make the game easier. Why is inappropriately scaled content okay in Morrowind but not Oblivion?

[lukeboy]

btw, I found a goblin with 700 hitpoints on my way through the sewers the other day. My health is barely over 250. That lets me think they didn't do this leveled monster deal right.

Unless you installed a mod, it was a Goblin Warlord. They default to lv. 18 (@ 540 hp) and scale with you, so it's possible that it had 700hp at 20-something.

 

The scaling doesn't take into account your character's health, and rightly so - it's a composite of starting health, level, and END (over time). And since level is the only one of those things that will steadily increase over time, it's a fine value to scale off of.

 

I really don't understand all these complaints about difficulty - after the cakewalk that was Morrowind, this is a treat. I'd much rather have a challenge throughout than a tiny bit of a challenge for a handful of levels at the beginning of the game.

 

If you're having such a hard time, rethinking your character's skills can help greatly. If you don't take skills that level rapidly and don't help in combat (Acrobatics, Alchemy (somewhat), Athletics, Mercantile, Speechcraft...), your character is more likely to have the skills and equipment needed to overcome the game's challenges.

 

But it did go into a situation which is kinda taking you out of the game world.

Based on the leveling up system. the game is getting too difficult when you characters reach level 10 gate.

because all the monster level up with you. Unless you find powerful equipment plus your major attribute reach over 50 by the time you reach 10. cuz that 's the attribute that monsters have.

 

If you are a causal player with no plan on leveling up your attribute with +5 everytime . You will feel extremly discouraged by those monster such as lion or troll. That's the most happened case. I personally have diffculty until I reach level 15 and my major attribute reach over 70. Then the game becomes more realistic. cuz monster is still leveling with you but they are not ridiculously hard to kill cuz your attritube is as hight as them even higher.

 

I like the idea of monster leveling up like FF8. But I would suggest a modificion of monster's attritubes during the mid level. That seems to be the most problem we have right now

[Qasid]

I find it cool, the world evolves andall that. But now, what I believe is that it is not well scaled. I mean, cool, you advance, get higher levels, learn etc. And indeed, bandits also spend more time raiding people, so also improve.

 

But now! You improve through exploring dungeons, going to oblivion, fighting supernatural forces, etc. The bandit improves through assaulting travellers. But in the same time both you and him will advance 10 levels? And he also gets daedric swords ? How is that?

 

I find the level system realistic, but I don't find its scaling realistic.

 

And the thing with the slider is, that you turn it down to make a bit easier. A bit easier doesn't mean you kill most of your enemies with a single slash or an arrow shot to their chest - or head - or whatever.

 

Well anyhow, let's hope in a few months we see a patch coming up the re-balances a few aspects of the game =)