(Wip) Ammo Limit

[Harmy52]

First of all, I'm sure that it's been done before, but I wanted to make my own version.

 

This is my solution to the staggering amounts of ammo in the wastes. In vanilla Fallout 3 you could have way too much ammo. This mod attempts to fix that. I've had several mods that attempted to fix this, however all added weight to the ammo. My mod works different.

 

This is how it works. You can only have a set amount of ammo and a set amount of every individual ammo type.

 

Lets say that you can carry 10000 units of Ammo max and 240 10mm bullets. If you get more then 240 10mm bullets then the excess ammo will be removed. If you get more then 10000 units of ammo, then the excess ammo will be removed. So this allows for you to actually run out of ammo during firefights. I have also set it so that you can have more then the max ammo during combat. After combat it will be removed.

 

It is 100% percent compatible with mods that edit ammo. As long as they do not edit thier EditorID. So this works with mods like FWE, BRUTE, and other overhauls.

 

However, the reason that this is still a wip is this. I can't decide on the numbers. All the scripting is done, all it needs is a bit of fine tuning.

 

How much max ammo do you think is sensible? Types like 5mm should be able to have a lot more then let's say 44 Magnum Bullets. But .44 also do a lot more damage per bullet. So you also need less of them.

 

 

 

So in short, how much do you think should be the max amount of ammo, and could you post a list of the maximum number of bullets per ammo type?

 

Harmy52

 

So far:

 

10mm 240

BB 200

.308 120

.32 120

 

 

These are just my suggestions. I would like your opinion on this.

[gsmanners]

Since the limits are totally arbitrary, maybe what's needed is some hard rules. If what you want to limit is the effectiveness of the weapon used, you could look at MDPS for the average weapon for that ammo (see Weapons for detailed stats).

 

So, let's say we're talking about 10mm. The average MDPS for weapons that use that is 52.8. Let's say you also want to allow up to 12500 damage per ammo type. That would give you 236.7 (which you can just round up to 240).

[P3G4SU5]

First of all, I'm sure that it's been done before, but I wanted to make my own version.

 

This is my solution to the staggering amounts of ammo in the wastes. In vanilla Fallout 3 you could have way too much ammo. This mod attempts to fix that. I've had several mods that attempted to fix this, however all added weight to the ammo. My mod works different.

 

This is how it works. You can only have a set amount of ammo and a set amount of every individual ammo type.

 

Lets say that you can carry 10000 units of Ammo max and 240 10mm bullets. If you get more then 240 10mm bullets then the excess ammo will be removed. If you get more then 10000 units of ammo, then the excess ammo will be removed. So this allows for you to actually run out of ammo during firefights. I have also set it so that you can have more then the max ammo during combat. After combat it will be removed.

 

It is 100% percent compatible with mods that edit ammo. As long as they do not edit thier EditorID. So this works with mods like FWE, BRUTE, and other overhauls.

 

However, the reason that this is still a wip is this. I can't decide on the numbers. All the scripting is done, all it needs is a bit of fine tuning.

 

How much max ammo do you think is sensible? Types like 5mm should be able to have a lot more then let's say 44 Magnum Bullets. But .44 also do a lot more damage per bullet. So you also need less of them.

 

 

 

So in short, how much do you think should be the max amount of ammo, and could you post a list of the maximum number of bullets per ammo type?

 

Harmy52

 

So far:

 

10mm 240

BB 200

.308 120

.32 120

 

 

These are just my suggestions. I would like your opinion on this.

This mod has caught my attention - I was contemplating making a ammo type capacity mod based on how Anchorage operated but never got around to making it. What exactly happens if you were to go to a vendor and purchase more ammo than the capacity for that ammo type? You say "excess ammo will be removed" so does this to mean that if I were to purchase 1000 .44 rounds and the ammo capacity for .44 was 300 then I would lose 700 rounds to the abyss? I assume you have some safeguard to prevent overpurchasing/picking up too much ammo? Just curious about the mod workings :smile:

 

In regard to capacities you seem to have reasonable capacities for the listed types already, I'd probably allow for the following in addition:

 

.44 ~130

5.56 ~540 - could probably fit around 18x 30 bullet clips into various pockets and satchels

5mm ~1920 - this is based on the space available inside the minigun ammo crate worn as a backpack which I estimated could fit approximately 6 of the ammo 'clips' which the character inserts into the gun, allowing for two extras to be carried on the characters' person

MF ~ 600

EC ~ 2000 Not quite sure if the same principle for the minigun works for the gatling gun, it won't for the tesla cannon anyway. Based purely on an estimate of the number of cells that you could fit in various pockets/etc. Seems to me a relatively small EC is much more space efficient to the large ammo tubs used by the minigun so maybe a slightly higher capacity for EC than 5mm?

 

Not sure how far you're willing to go with the mod but you could incorporate some kind of feature where the capacities are increased slightly with the wearing of a backpack/certain apparel with more pockets.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

*Edited due to accidental premature post :wallbash:

[Burbinator]

Since the limits are totally arbitrary, maybe what's needed is some hard rules. If what you want to limit is the effectiveness of the weapon used, you could look at MDPS for the average weapon for that ammo (see Weapons for detailed stats).

 

So, let's say we're talking about 10mm. The average MDPS for weapons that use that is 52.8. Let's say you also want to allow up to 12500 damage per ammo type. That would give you 236.7 (which you can just round up to 240).

 

That sounds like a good idea, but how are you going to calculate it? Taking the average of ALL weapons seems faulty to me, because of rare uniques (which should be specially awesome and shouldn't penalize you indireclty by lowering your ammo amounts, not to mention you wont' find these until much later in the game) and because of terrible guns that no one ever uses, such as chinese pistol. On the other hand, weapons like the hunting rifle are pretty darn useful but have a very low dps because of their slow speed. Because they use less ammo, shouldn't they also have less max ammo? Otherwise you'll never have a chance of running out as the TS wants. But the mdps of .32 weapons is lower than that of 10mm. Furthermore, MDPS assumes you're hitting with everything, which is obviously not true. Weapons like the hunting rifle are more useful because their acc is higher and therefore closer to DPS potentials. Using a 10mm, it's not unreasonable to go as low as 50% acc in a harsh fight if you are constantly dodging and you lack a high small guns skill.

 

So pure calculations would be an inferior system, I think.

 

Perhaps taking an average of ROF might give you some good rough numbers to work with (higher ROF per ammo type = more ammo of course) and then tweak them from there. Only, I can't seem to find the list of ROFs. So, whatever.

 

I think if you're going to do 240 10mm only, then you should have much less .308 and .32. Consider that you have an smg in the 10mm category but the only real pick for .32 is the slow firing hunting rifle, of which 120 rounds equals 60 clips, uniques notwithstanding. Also, ammunition for the 10mm is more immediately useful in a fight than a sniper rifle. So if you're going for that same feeling of urgency, then sniping (which is more laid back to begin with) should include much less ammunition. I'm thinking 40-60. Every missed shot is going to make the player wince.

 

I don't use shotguns much, only combat with autofire mechanism modification. But I think 80 would work well, to start with.

 

Assault rifles use ammo quickly, but they're also some of the most useful weapons. Rather than 540 I would suggest 480 max clip size, in accordance with the rest of your list. Reasons: assault rifle ammunition seems to be the most easily found in the mid game, when your cap is going to matter the most. In the early game, you're probably NOT going to be hitting the ammo cap at all. In the late game, sure you have tons of ammo but you also have tons of different weapons all with different ammo types as well for you to switch to. So, anyway. Mid game = most assault rifle ammo found, thus smaller ammo cap.

 

It might be more interesting to have higher caps per ammo type but make the max ammo cap much lower to force the player to focus on a few types. But then you have issues of balance (one type of ammo does more dmg per second etc).

 

Question: how come you dislike the ammo weight feature? It accomplishes a lot of what you're trying to do here while adding dynamics to the game of choosing between ammo and food, whether to focus on one type of gun that uses the same ammo or many, etc. I guess you don't actually like those dynamics ?

[Harmy52]

Well, I have set upon a formula. Highest clip size * 10. So this means that the sniper for example will only have 50 bullets. And since not many enemies carry .308 bullets, unless you use merchants, you're going to be hard pressed searching for ammo if you're out of town for a while.

 

The .32 has the same amount of Max Ammo as the Sniper. Considering the Hunting Rifle is used by most as some sort of sniper, this fits in well.

 

This also means that you have around 80 Shotgun Shells, while they probably won't be emptied in one fight, they will in several fights. This means that the Mall will be an even harsher place.

 

Excess ammo will now be dropped from your inventory. So you can still buy more ammo than you need, you will only be able to store it in the shop for the time being. Beware though, first time you will probably drop a lot of boxes. :whistling:

 

During my first test CraterSide Supply was filled with 1 ammo boxes :sweat: Now the bigger your excess ammo is the bigger the individual ammo boxes are. In sizes of 10, 25, and 50. Beware with 5mm though. Those boxes are huge.

 

There's only one weapon not included in Max Clip Size * 10. The Experimental MIRV. I would consider it highly unlikely that a person could carry 80 Mini-Nukes. So I have set the Max to 10.

 

So far the ammos included are.

 

10mm 300

.32 50

.308 50

.44 60 (Ouch, I love the Magnum)

Flamer Fuel 600

5mm 2400

EC Pack 2400

Fatman 10

.556 240 (I'm thinking of upping this. I don't use assault rifles, so I will have to test this some more.)

Dart 10 (One shot and the legs are crippled, OP much?)

Railway Spikes 80

BB 1000 (These are tiny metal balls, how much did you have as a kid? I had more then 1000.)

 

I've run into a problem with the Global. The Drop command doesn't work on formlists, so I still have to delete the excess ammo. And I don't want that. So I'm thinking of removing the Global.

 

Also, should greneades be implemented? If so, how many?

 

Harmy52

[Burbinator]

I tend to use up assault rifle ammo pretty quickly, 240 seems low to me.

 

grenades already have weight so why bother with that?

[Harmy52]

Well, you're probably right about the .556 part. I think that I will double it.

 

And I think that I'll make it optional for the grenades.

 

I like those Dynamics, but I wnated something different. The weight problem wasn't my biggest issue. I still had too much ammo. At least, in my opinion. And the weight of 5mm Ammo always was scaled to be not in favor of the Big Gun user. Atleats, that's how I felt it. And for people who do use them, this mod is compatible with all.

 

Harmy52

[gsmanners]

Rather than drop the ammo, you could try removing it to a particular container. What might work out nice would be if you access a hidden container via computer terminals set up at particular places.

 

The thing about using a formula is that you give a purpose to your limits and not just some arbitrarily-decided value. Admittedly, a more complete consideration of effectiveness would also factor in spread, but I think I made my point. :)

[SteamNexus]

Trying to find this mod and GOOGLE brings me here (yes necro but this is where Google brings me)
this mod is here
Ammo Limit
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/10921

If the Player picks up too much ammo, the mod DROPS it and if in a "dungeon" will place it near its entrance (not by design, that is just what the game does)