Poll: Morrowind Or Oblivion

[Malchik]

Exactly it Peregrine on your last point. It should not be possible for me to clear mines etc at level one but I can. If both I and enemies level together I should always be able to clear a mine. It does not work like that. The system has no internal logic and ceases to be interesting. I like the idea of not being able to do some quests until I am stronger but by making it possible for me to do everything provided I do not level up is a nonsense IMO.

[goseki]

all good points i guess...

 

i still like the leveling used towards the freeform design though.

different characters that you play as will have different storys, so what was a low level mission for my current character may be a very hard trek for a character that does it late in the game.

yeah some places, afew actually, could be off limits early on.

in fact i've come across one mission labled in the journal as off limits to one under level17

 

but different games will be more condusive to different styles of play anyway.

 

about the voices...

i wonder what could have been done dialogue-wise if it had been kept text based.

sure it would have been less 'next-gen' but the dynamics of the conversations could have been given much more depth and the player many more options for the amount of disk space used for audio.

 

as it stands actual verbal scripting hasn't really improved on morrowind. you just hear it now.

[Guest]

Personally, I feel that even though Oblivion is much much more simplified than Morrowind, it pulls ahead in several important aspects. Its true that oblivion sometimes makes me shudder and ask myself "what was bethsoft thinking?" (for example, bandits with daedric weapons) but on the whole, whenever I load my game up I am in awe of nearly every aspect in the game.

 

Stealth is insanely improved, when the amount of light in an area can affect how well you sneak, that tells me the designers looked at morrowind and asked themselves what kinds of players were severely shortchanged. This is also seen with lockpicking, it's so much more fun and interesting, that the first time I tried it I had to reload and do it again. Radiant AI is another aspect which thief based characters truly benefit, shopkeepers actually leave their shops, rich mansion owners go to bed at night. Interesting, exciting and fun.

 

I've heard some people express their annoyance with the persuasion "mini-game" and I think that it's something that we won't see eye-to-eye on. I feel that the persuasion game is much more fun and exciting than just rolling a die based on your speechcraft skill. It gives players a way to improve thier speechcraft without throwing ridiculous amounts of money around. "Here have 200 gold to be my friend" dosent do it for me.

 

Map markers are a simple way of avoinding spending hours wandering around in circles looking for a cave that my journal fails to give clear and accurate directions to. This is an example of simplification, however, I feel that its an improvement over morrowind rather than a detraction. Some people may enjoy memorizing the layout and landscape of the map, can recall every region by name, and are able to follow unrecorded dialogue directions to get to the cavern sullipund in to the northwest of balmorra in foyada something something, I can't, I have a terrible memory, and unless I write it down or can recall it through my journal function I'm hopeless. Perhaps they over did it, but I would perfer to have too much direction rather than too little.

 

Quests and factions are soo much better (I added an extra "o" to "so" to express my emphasis on the word) yes yes there are only 4 factions, but in this case I feel that quality is far more imporant than quantity. In Morrowind (with the exception of the Main Quest) the missions were deliver this item to this person and report back to claim your reward, Advance every two missions. In oblivion, you have the pretend to be someone else to flush out a spy in the guild, get this item in quest A, this item in quest B, another time in quest C, to use them all in Quest D. Go behind the guildmaster's back to attempt to take down a rogue organization. The complexity of the faction storylines, along with the final cumulation of events for all of them (Well maybe not All of them, I'm still working on the Mage's guild) makes Oblivion entirely more engaging than Morrowind. I won't lie, I would have been happy with more factions, but that is more a hunger on my part than a failing on Bethesda, actually, it is a positive for bethesda for making thier game so much fun that I want so much more.

 

Finally, I've heard that Oblivion's constructon set is absolutely amazing (I'm not a modder so I dont know this sort of thing too well) almost everyone on every forum I've been to seems to be in agreement on this, Oblivion's construction set is leaps and bounds better than Morrowind's (which was no slouch by the way) so if the modding community makes a smooth transition to Oblivion's then I can forsee several years of content being added and improved, and hopefully will fix all annoyances that anyone has with the game making nearly every aspect of the game customizable, and consequently giving it nearly universal appeal. I've already seen several mods that fix the problems that people have with scaling levels, as well as several WIP of fixing daedric and glass equipment. I'm sure that if you give it time, there will be a mod out there to fix every single annoyance you have with the game and then some.

[thanateros]

I'm going to take a more Darwinian stance on this issue. So here's what I think. The way the world exists in Oblivion changes as the character changes, in evolutionary terms, adapts as the character gains more levels/better equipment/higher skills. While I can see the argument being made in favor of an environment that always changes, I think it's rubbish. That's right, the interactive basis for adventuring in Oblivion is rubbish. It makes no sense whatsoever that everything around you is as dynamic as you are. It basically creates a stale environment where your skills aren't as relevant as is your ability to mash the block and attack buttons while evading your enemies. Your health is rediculously precious in this game, and while this might be more "real" it lacks "fun". At higher levels, I should enjoy the fact that I can march through a bandit cave and not have to worry about taking much damage, or that I should be able to backstab everyone and their mother without them having the chance to hit me back. My character should be the one to adapt the environment, not the other way around. My character should have to run the gamit of "I can't go there because it's too hard" to "That was easy". NPC's should also give you some indication as to where a character of your level is capable of going without getting demolished in one hit. For this I'll use the analogy of a Ski slope. You have the beginner courses so that those new to skiing and snowboarding are eased into the experience, that they in some respect recognize their limited abilities and develop them in an area the encourages growth. When they're ready to move to more challenges they can go to the intermidiate courses. Here it's like starting all over again, since the level of difficulty is higher than you might be capable of, but through trial and error the skier gets more proficient at nagivating more difficult courses. This extends into the Hard and Expert levels as well. I enjoy knowing that challenges exist in my mind, but I can CHOOSE not to encouter them until I'm ready. Oblivion cuts off your ability to do this in every sense. The developers neglected the idea that players might not want to always have to battle the most powerful and accomplished characters. I hate that if I decide to go picking Alchemy ingredients, I'll run into an Ogre. Well clearly, a thief character would have to be utterly rediculous to take one on, less so for a fighter, but that's the difference between the intent behind designing a character.

 

My implementation would be something like this:

 

- Remove the dynamic NPC leveling system

 

- Assign level of difficulty for specific REGIONS of the land mass

 

As with evolution, the character must adapt to the environment; I expect to fear PARTS of the world my character is unable to successfully navigate, and I don't like fearing every turn in the well traveled roads.

[Latholas]

Hmm peregrine has lots of good points but no not only for the horses, also for npc's not standing on the same position for a few years and so on... In oblivion everything seems real with people going about their business and not all just waiting for you in cities.

And about 'you cant judge that yet' i meant not the world i meant your progress, because i dont suppose you are level 63 or something like that.

This ranking system is to prevent you to get bored when your good because everything is easy.

though i agree that the wolves(who in my opinion replace the cliff racers...) should stay bad and easily killed.

and i also agree that they should have put hard and easy dungeons in oblivion (also leveling up).

Oh and DoctorPhanhan is absolutely right about quests. the only Go-Kill-Deliver mission i had so far is the haunted ship of anvil.

 

and now for that the games cant be compared.

i wasnt talking about the storyline, i was talking about the random theme of the game.

it is possible that someone hates medieval games and likes more fantasy games and oblivion is a balance between fantasy and medieval (which is why i actually wonder why there are catholic churches in oblivion since that religion is nowhere to find in oblivion or not yet existing).

What find bad about oblivion is that i saw a glass armor and it was particularly ugly :'( And that the only things seeming to exist (so far)are leather and iron armors.

 

So, this is my opinion, find me silly, find me dumb, i wont care and i could understand other people because everyone has different tastes.

Oh and really im gonna stop discussing this, if you want it to be easy, blast it man just set the sliders on easy. Same if you want it to be hard, put the sliders on hard.

[Shake/]

Well I'm a long standing TES fan. Daggerfall was the first RPG I ever played when I was in my early teens. And I'm now 24.. And I have to say Morrowind is 100x better than Oblivion.............

...............................

 

 

Actually I'm telling fibs. There's no way that vanilla Morrowind is any where near as good as Oblivion. This is just my opinion of course.. but here are some reasons on what I base my opinion on.

 

-Quests

 

Anyone who says Morrowind had better quetss than Oblivion is crazy. Oblivion has the best quests out of the series. The quests have actual stories. Full voice acting, and they're interesting. I just finished a quest where I jumped into someones dream world and completed puzzles so that the person who was dreaming could awaken out of his nightmare. I've never seen cinimatic quets like this in any of the previous TES games. Morrowind's quests for example were simply deliver item X to person Y, or speak with person X at town Y. Grab item X from dungron Y etc etc. In some ways even some MMORPGs had better quests than Morrowind (which is shameful).

 

 

-Combat

 

I don't think I really need to go into much detail on the combat. Anyone and everyone I think must realise that Oblivion not only kills Morrowind in the combat department. But probably every CRPG ever made.

 

-The NPC scripting (radiant ai)

 

Another great feature of Oblivion is the day and night cycles of the NPCs. This is honestly one of the features that in my opinion makes Oblivion not just a good game but a great game. Bethesda played about with day and night cycles in Daggerfall. The merchants in Daggerfall would goto sleep at night and all the NPCs would clear the city at night time also. In Oblivion though, of course they've taken it to new heights. To me personally playing as a thief running around the imperial city, and breaking into peoples hosues at 1 am in the morning. And creeping around robbing them while they're sleeping,Is one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had playing a game. Now I'll admit the Radiant Ai has some faults..but those faults in my opnion are easily forgotten when considering how much depth the Ai adds to the game.

 

-Balance (level scaleing)

 

Another feature I like and also dislike about Oblivion is the balance. I say I dislike, but honestly I think I prefere it more than hate it. And the reason being is because the game is less exploitable. In Morrowind I found the game far too easy. Maybe to someone who is't familiar with TES then maybe that ability to exploit the world was something original and entertaining to them. But to me I found it broke the game. I would find glass armour and weapons at level 1 and then the game was over. I could kill pretty much anything at level 10/11 with some glass armour and wepaons and only 5 hours play time. Even Dremora and Deadra. Daggerfall was also veyr epxloitable. But Daggerfall used the same scaleing system that Oblivions uses, which is probably why I like Oblivions sytem more. Because it's more true to the series and becauase you have work a bit more for your items. granted hwen you hit level 25+ uber items start falling out of the sky, but sitll you had to work for those items. Instead of just robbing Vivec bank at level 1. Now what I dislike about the scaleing is the fact that Bethesda did not put enough imagination into the world. They simply made everything depend on the scaleing. So the exploration is actually kind of boring. Because you know what you're going to find before you even step in the dungeon. If they would have added some original dungeons for certain levels. Then they could of made things alot more interesting. for example five dungeons from level 1- 10 and 10-20 and 20 - 30 etc etc, which have unique and original items and contain original bosses. That would give you some incentive to go and find these dungeons and get some orginal loot. Thankfully though mods have already fixed this, for example Adventurer's mod. Which basically randomizes things a bit and makes the game more fun. Each dungeon has a boss which usally drops something very good for your level.

 

 

So anyway this is just my opinion of course. But so far I'm prefering Oblivion alot more than Morrowind.

[kamikazekillerboy]

What annoys me the most; and noone else seems to have mentioned it. Is that although you can explore in Oblivion - whats the point? most of the games unique items are bought in shops and (at least for me) all dungeons/tombs etc i raid end up being fruitless. As much as the new leveled creature/item does make things a bit fairer; it is a limitation which is somthing the elder scrolls is meant to be against. I really miss being able to go out hunting for rare, unique weapons and armour (chrysamere etc) and was probably the thing i enjoyed most about Morrowind.

[jstar]

Oblivion blows morrowind out of the water for me. The world feels so much more alive and realistic. And i don't get the complaints about the journal - its really well thought out. The journal in morrowind was total crap and made playing the game after an absence impossible. Also the quests are so much more inventive - morrowind was just go there fetch that or kill that person. The quests in oblivion are similar but they are set up so much better and feel as though they have had more thought put into them. The way so many link into other quests is also brilliant.

 

The combat is also vastly superior as is the fact you don't have to equip your hands to cast spells. Adding horses was also inspired as was introducing the fast travel systm. If i have time I'll trek through the wilderness but its nice to have the option.

 

I agree that the levelling system is seriously flawed. I'm level 15 and my int is already at 80 - soon to be maxed out which is ridiculous. The way the difficulty of the mobs scale is rubbish as well but its such an easy fix it doesn't hugely bother me.

 

Already there are mods that cut your levelling speed by half (this makes a massive difference) and adjust the way simple mobs carry daedric armour at higher levels.

 

And the early quests for the main story are awesome (I don't know about the others as I have not progressed that far) and amongst the most amazing gaming moments I have ever experienced.

 

I have to say though that the oblivion gates are very dull. I have only done the first one and have avoided entering any others which annoys me a i kind of feel I should. Its just really boring to have to go through and do the same thing every time. A bit of variety would have been good.

 

I can't honestly understand how anyone could consider Morrowind to be better to be honest.

[Malchik]

Latholas - I'm not sure what level you are but I've seen mithril, leather, fur, iron, steel, chain and orcish armour and glass and daedric is available. They are on npcs you kill. I'm sure there will be more too.

 

Also, my point is not that I find the game hard (I relish a challenge) but that I find it illogical. If I can take out a necromancer like ?Jalbert (can't remember the name) at level one why can I not take him out when I am at level 10. If we both levelled up at a similar rate the fight should have the same outcome EVEN IF he was harder to reach at higher levels. The npcs, wildlife and monsters level up and increase in numbers disproportionately. I have just cleared an Aeylid ruin of about ten skeletons, three zombies, eight bandits and a necromancer on standard difficulty at level one with only a steel sword, leather armour and a couple of healing potions. At level ten with mithril armour and an elven longsword I can barely kill a wild pig! And there are so many vindictive animals, bandits and monsters in the coutryside as you level up you have to wonder how the populace manages to get any farming done!

 

The graphics are very attractive. I would like to be able to do the tourist bit and explore but at my level it is just one damned fight after another and win or lose it simply gets boring! If I'd wanted a hack and slash game I would have bought something else!

 

This is why I have started a new game and like thanateros my character is not going to level up until I have had a good look at the place!

 

Please also note this is an initial reaction based on the first character I have tried over a two week period. And I make it quite clear that I am not making any judgement until I have been with the game rather longer. At the moment the lack of fun in being able to explore is a serious annoyance for me. Maybe at level 70 it will all seem so easy. Somehow I doubt it but I will wait and see. After I have done my sightseeing!

 

kkkb - I'm sure there are many unique weapons in game you can only get by completing quests. I already have some of them I do take the point that as well as getting them that way there are many you can buy but you have to know where. Is that so much different from picking up Bthuangth's Harvester (excuse spelling) which is just sitting around in Ald Ruhn waiting to be taken?

[Moribundusvii]

I don't understand all the complaining about oblivion. Everyone says it's simplified, but the combat and magic is more complex than Morrowind. It seems simplified because the font in the menu is bigger and the game shockingly gives you an idea of what to do when you start the game. People say it has less content when it doesn't, people just aren't looking for it. There are more towns, more sidequests, more Daedric Shrines, more books, more Unique items, more of more or less everything Morrowind had. The levelled monsters may be a bit dodgy, but the game is hardly impossible. You don't have to play a fighter to have a chance in the game. My assassin, who would be killed easily in straight combat with most enemies, clears ruins easily. If you play your class as it was intended, and are actually GOOD at the game then things are fine. Most of the people who complain about the levelled monsters are the ones who relied on the automatic dodging and weird dice-roll type combat, where even if you hit you missed. It is a different game, but it has changed so that you actually require some skill to do well in it. Learn to move and block people, it's not hard. I like it getting harder as I level, it keeps the game challenging and intense. The reason most people found it easier to clear ruins at level 1 is that the divide between the types of skills had not grown. A fighter still had more or less as many hitpoints as a mage and all that. But you get more specialised as you level, so soon the fighter outstrips the mage by far in hitpoints and melee skill, so things seem harder for the mage, especially if that mage is being a retard and fighting with a sword. You've got to adapt with your stats. My assassin was good hidden or out in the open with a bleedin claymore at level 1, but now he is very powerful hidden but would get his ass kicked after even 1 slip-up fighting using a claymore. Morrowind was too gentle on people who didn't play their class the way the class dictated. The theif should have learned to dodge and hide and play cleverly to beat the fighter by level 20. Still, even if you aren't as talented as other players, swallow your pride and turn the difficulty down. The NPCs have as much personality, if not more, than the Morrowind NPCs. There are more stories, more rumours, more gossip and everything in Oblivion. People are just more accustomed to morrowind and remember it as better than it actually was. If people haven't found as much lore and secrets in Oblivion, they aren't looking hard enough.