spoiler Discuss- the Flemmeth/Morrigan Relationship

[DarkeWolf]

Energy! Where ya been? Missed your additions to the conversations around here lately!

 

Yeah, but how could Flemeth force her to do anything once Flemeth is "gone" as the game puts it?

[brokenergy]

I've been doing work for sometime so I haven't had the time to write a response.

 

About that, I think that Flemeth was and still is a huge influence on Morrigan. She fears Flemeth which is quite understandable considering that how she was raised as a child and would do whatever her mother commands, even after Flemeth's death. I don't know if that particular dialog a couple of pages back would work with the real grimoire but I'm willing to try both paths to see how it goes.

 

About Flemeth's reaction towards you... I think BW made little hints with Zev and Mora's dialog. In particular this one.

 

* Zevran: So if the legend of your mother is true, Morrigan, does that mean that the legends of her many daughters are as well?

* Morrigan: To be honest, I have no idea. I've never met any sister of mine, nor has my mother spoken of any.

* Zevran: But it could be true, yes? If you exist, there could have been others like you.

* Morrigan: Long ago, perhaps. Why?

* Zevran: We have legends of witches in Antiva. one that tells of a Witch of the Wild, traveled far from her home to settle in the Tellari Swamps.

* Morrigan: And? You thought I might know this woman?

* Zevran: If one legend can be true, why not another? Who knows how many Morrigans are scattered about Thedas, hmm?

* Morrigan: It's not something I'd like to contemplate.

* Zevran: Oh? You do not appreciate a little competition from a half-sister or two?

* Morrigan: Silence, elf. It is none of your concern.

 

I'm also backtracking from my previous comments about Mora not prolonging her life because of this dialog between her and Wynne.

 

* Morrigan: Have you given thought to, perhaps, prolonging your life by forcing another spirit into your service?

* Wynne: Of course not.

* Morrigan: I would. Of course, I am still young, beautiful, and my life is my own while you are bound to that Circle. Hmm. I wonder why I asked. It would be a silly thing, prolonging your life. A waste.

* Wynne: Think what you will, Morrigan. When the end comes, I will go gladly to my rest, proud of my achievements. While, you… you will see how empty your life was. You will realize that because you never had love for others, you never received love in return. And you will die alone and unmourned.

* Morrigan: You speak of meaningless things. I need no one to mourn me, old woman.

* Wynne: More’s the pity.

[DarkeWolf]

Well, sorry to hear that, but it's good to see you back :)

 

Well, that...and she's seen first hand what Flemeth is capable of, and has a better idea than anybody (still alive) of what kind of power Flemeth possesses.

 

Heh heh, yeah... I'd been holding back on that second conversation, the one with Wynn. Tho I'll profess that I'd forgotten about the one with Zev.

Yes, they've dropped little hints all over the place. Not just with mora/flemeth. ;)

[Lordapolyon]

Thats one big flaw that I saw in all that, about the soul of the god being drawn to the child. Something that Morrigan was obviouosly leaving out when she was telling us about the ritual. First off, it's not even an embryo after the first night. It would barely be even recognizable as a mixture of DNA.

What Im trying to get it as it that I dont think the "demon" would recognize it as an inhabitable body. My belief is that Morrigan lied about that, and I also think that Flemeth's power would have been needed to pull that soul in, so to speak.

Ummm.... what about the whole Morrigan romance before the ritual. I mean, she was crawling into my bed after 1 quest. Maybe a previous embryo?

[brokenergy]

No mate by the time that everyone reaches Denerim, the embryo would be around 2~3 weeks old. Plenty of time to develop.

[DarkeWolf]

Thats one big flaw that I saw in all that, about the soul of the god being drawn to the child. Something that Morrigan was obviouosly leaving out when she was telling us about the ritual. First off, it's not even an embryo after the first night. It would barely be even recognizable as a mixture of DNA.

What Im trying to get it as it that I dont think the "demon" would recognize it as an inhabitable body. My belief is that Morrigan lied about that, and I also think that Flemeth's power would have been needed to pull that soul in, so to speak.

Ummm.... what about the whole Morrigan romance before the ritual. I mean, she was crawling into my bed after 1 quest. Maybe a previous embryo?

 

But thats only if they'd been boffing beforehand. If say... female warden, Al or (oh gawd no) Loghain has to do the deed.....

[SpellAndShield]

Thats one big flaw that I saw in all that, about the soul of the god being drawn to the child. Something that Morrigan was obviouosly leaving out when she was telling us about the ritual. First off, it's not even an embryo after the first night. It would barely be even recognizable as a mixture of DNA.

What Im trying to get it as it that I dont think the "demon" would recognize it as an inhabitable body. My belief is that Morrigan lied about that, and I also think that Flemeth's power would have been needed to pull that soul in, so to speak.

Ummm.... what about the whole Morrigan romance before the ritual. I mean, she was crawling into my bed after 1 quest. Maybe a previous embryo?

 

But thats only if they'd been boffing beforehand. If say... female warden, Al or (oh gawd no) Loghain has to do the deed.....

 

You forget about the mods that magically give female wardens the ability to impregnate Morrigan! :tongue:

[CrapsterZ]

I think Flemeth plays the sort of "anti-hero" role in DA. Her intentions are good, despite her possession by a demon. Perhaps her means and intentions are the result of the conflict between the human and the demon within her? Possibly. She did warn the Grey Wardens that the Blight poses a greater threat than the Grey Wardens realise. (My theory is that she knows of the Architect and his role in the Blight that occured in DA:O) and hands them the treaties.

 

This raises two theories for me:

 

1) Flemeth actually has been manipulating events from the get go. She definitely has a lot of questionable actions, and I question whether the Grey Warden Cache we were first sent to locate truly wore off a long time ago or that Flemeth had stole the treaties so she could get the Grey Wardens to come and find her, which would also make sense as to why Morrigan was spying on their progress in the first place - Flemeth sent her out as a scout.

 

2) Flemeth has no ulterior motive but to ensure that the Blight is stopped, despite her questionable actions as I mentioned before. Take into account that she is willing to risk Morrigan dying on the journey at the hands of darkspawn ("I give you what I value above all else") and that she chose to save the two newest recruits of the Grey Wardens. Why the main character and Alistair specifically? If she had that kind of power surely she could have saved the other Wardens as well (at least gotten them out of the battle if not bringing them back to her hut, remember that Morrigan was "watching the battle" and did nothing as well, perhaps on her instructions?) I attribute this to the fact that Duncan knows about Flemeth, and that when Alistair mentions Morrigan and her mother to Duncan when you return from the Wilds, and we only get to learn Morrigan's name but not Flemeth's, it could be a intentionally missed out detail to at least ensure we don't mention the name to Duncan, who would then suspect something is up (and I also question how the main character and Alistair would forget to mention her warning of the threat of the Blight, that was just asking to get raped in the butt.)

 

Taking into account that Morrigan says Flemeth gave her the ritual and if you question her about she tells you that the Old God's soul is something worth preserving, I'd surmise that Flemeth's intention is simply to have Morrigan bear a child with the soul of the Old God with the Warden, and if rumors regarding Alistair are true - a child immune to the taint - we have a being with the Old God's soul who is no longer able to tainted by the DS, which serves two goals:

 

1) Preserving the Old Gods, whether they are really gods or not, it is undeniable they have great power and making them immune to the taint, and from my conjecture regarding magic - that it is tied to the spirit rather than body, the Old God is able to use the "siren call" to control the DS as well. Meaning you effectively have a sapient being capable of controlling the DS without the need for destroying the lands. Flemeth might simply use this as a way to prevent them from reaching the remaining Old Gods and tainting them and keeping the DS away from the other races, or she could want to manipulate the child to unleash an army of DS upon the lands (the latter I doubt, since the Warden is at least capable of subduing her if not killing her outright, and the child could just as well turn on her)

 

2) A powerful ally against future Blights, or the Architect (assuming the premise that the Warden didn't kill him). Immune to the taint and with the powers of an Old God? Even if the child could not control the DS he'd be virtually unstoppable against them, reason enough to conceive him.

 

This plan was however, foiled when Morrigan learned of Flemeth's plans to possess her, and getting the Warden to kill her. Which is why she tries to make a deal with the Warden instead of just attacking him outright like she does with anyone else who hunted her in the past. She wishes to live and despite her insinuations that she will hunt down Morrigan, it may simply be to confront her about the chilld, since at that point the Warden doesn't know of Morrigan's intentions yet, and Flemeth is still playing her manipulation game with the Warden. To that end, she would be willing to give away the actual Grimoire to Morrigan or the Warden because it is a small sacrifice to a larger goal - getting the soul of an Old God, whether her intentions are as I have theorised or not.

 

If we believe that Flemeth is actually an "anti-hero", that is, that she is one of the good guys despite her actions and ruthlessness, then her actions of possessing the daughters to prolong her life makes sense, she is prolonging so that she may help the heroes (including Maric, Duncan and the Wardens in Calling and Stolen Throne) in a future way past her time, since we know that she does at least have some degree of precognition. Remember that her deal with the demon was that she would "trade her future for power", she could have well chosen to become an immortal corpse, not taking a new body once her revenge was sated, which might be what the deal entail in the first place. We do not know for sure if the demon gave Flemeth the ability to possess her daughters or if it is a ritual she came up with herself using the demon's power so she could serve her goals to that end.

 

Whether one believes Flemeth is good or bad, I think the point here is that she is far more cunning than she leads us to believe and I'm guessing the details Flemeth reveals to us directly as well as through Morrigan is but the tip of the iceberg for her plans.