spoiler Discuss- the Flemmeth/Morrigan Relationship

[DarkeWolf]

Well, without trying to offend anybody who happens to like that particular character.... Alistaire is kind of a dummy. He's not the brightest bulb in the box. I mean, this is the same guy who reached down and tried to touch the food of a war-dog, and was suprised when it tried to bite him. :closedeyes:

In his defense tho, the demon did a VERY good job with Alistaire's nightmare. Think about his background. He's never really had much of a family since he was a small child. The demon offered him something that he has really truly been wanting for many many years. Its a proven fact that if a person wants something bad enough, that they will work against themselves convinng themselves that it's true.

In the Warden's case.... well, the game wouldnt have gotten very far if the Warden fell for it, now would it? That and they chose a bad plot for the warden's nightmare. I mean, Duncan didnt have as much influence on the warden, as say... he did on Alistaire.

Speaking of that.... I'm almost halfway into Calling. I can see a considerable amount of personality resemblance between Duncan, and Alistaire. Much different backgrounds, but a lot of the same traits personality wise. I really think that Al is based a lot off of the Duncan from the book. That also goes to explain why they were so close... they were a lot alike.

That, and I can't help but wonder if duncan knew that he was Maric's son.

 

The fact that Morrigan is a mage could very well have had a big influence in her beating her nightmare. I had NOT thought of that! A very good point indeed!

I am really tempted to go back, and add wynn to my party and hit the fade again. Do some trial and error. Besides, her nighmare was mentioned earlier in this thread, and I still havent checked it out.

 

In Calling, Maric reveals that Flemeth told him, that a blight was coming. So she'd known about it for many years. Which would have given her a very long time to formulate her plans, and Morrigan's place in them. But so far, I've not reached a part of the book that goes into much more detail of his experience with Flemeth. So, nothing more to speculate on if Morrigan is his daughter or not.

I could go either way. I am still of the belief that she really is blood related to flemeth. I do leave the possibility open however, that she might not be.

 

Flemeth could be a very very large source of information, as far as plot goes, and having her in the party. Not just about Morrigan, but history tie-ins, magical stuff that the character might have to go looking for, areas of the world, etc. I don't kow if I'd trust flemeth's outlooks on Morrigan tho. I mean, she's raised the girl to be a tool. Either to take her as a new host body, or in the plot to conceive the god-child. That, and from the sounds of it from Morrigan's standpoint, it sounds as tho Flemeth was pretty harsh with her.

I agree tho, I'd love to find out more about Morrigan's past.

 

Reading the book, Calling... so far, I've found out some very interesting things about the Taint, the Warden's Calling, and how the taint affects them. And so far, it's given me a lot of reasons to doubt the wardens. Largely, because of what they DONT tell you.

 

This book also gives what MIGHT be taken as some clues about the expansion, and/or the sequel. A) The darkspawn are insatiably driven to locate the old gods, and release them from their prisons. They hear the old gods in their minds, and are unable to resist the call. B) the reason that they remain to the Deep Roads, is because the Old Gods are buried deep deep in the earth, which puts the darkspawn closer to the Old Gods.

Now, in the interview, it states that after the last blight, they don't return to the deep roads after being defeated. Doesnt say why. Why dont' they? Maybe because now they can sense one of these Old Gods ABOVE ground? IE... the baby?

Are they now gonna make a bee-line for Morrigan? If so, is that gonna be part of the plot of the expansion, to keep them from reaching Morrigan and the Child?

[brokenergy]

Not all mages where able to resist the sloth demon's powers; Wynne was one because the worst of her fears have been achieved while others such as Sten, who is not a mage was able to resisted because the sloth demon was brought images of the past that have long since past on and thus Sten knew that he was in the fade.

 

Duncan already knew that Alistair was Maric's son but the question stands; Is Fiona's child really Alistair, or another potential heir?

 

The real reason that the darkspawn are on the surface is because they can't go underground because of 'the children'. It has something to do with The Architect. If Bioware decide to a sequel (and god knows that they are) this could go on a darker path. The more I think about it, the more I think that Flemeth's plans are more than fusing her demonic power and that of the archdemon's. Could Flemeth be a hero in disguise or the ultimate villain? Morrigan is certainly a major part of Flemeth's plan (with the kid and everything) and The Warden also has a major part to play.

 

Now I'm thinking about the worst possible scenarios available to think of this stage for the next installment, let's hope that Bioware don't let us down.

 

Edit: Alistair is not dumb, he is just too naive

[DarkeWolf]

Finished the book last night. What you were talking about with Fiona was in the last chapter. So now I can comment.

I very strongly think that Al was the son that she brought to Maric. 1) Duncan promised to watch over him. Which, he eventually brought Al into the Wardens. 2) The thought Maric had, of how much he looked like Cailen. I just played Return to Ostagar last night, and seeing the two of them side by side (Cailen and Alistair) they are practically the SAME model, but with different hair. I had noticed the resemblance on my very first playthrough, but not knowing that they could be brothers, I thought that maybe it was just that they didnt use that many models for the game. And then had forgotten about it. The resemblance between them I mean.

3) The fact that Fiona wanted to hide his identity goes along with some comments (by players) that have been made that the story about his mother being a maid is just a cover up. 4) The fact that he (Duncan) was so close to Alistaire. I mean, he was very close to Fiona. And he had a healthy repect for Maric.

LOL tho it left me witht he question of- WHAT is it with Maric and Elves? Haha, I know that part of his attraction to Fiona was because of his first love, Kat. But geeze! And he obviously had a dungeon fetish. I mean, he bedded both of them in the deep roads!

 

The Children? EH? Where was this mentioned?

 

I definitely think that BW has future plans for Morrigan. Obviously that kid is too big of a plot device for them to pass up. And considering the fact that Flemeth is mentioned in the ending, as well as the fact that Morrigan says that she'll be back, yes I agree. Also considering that she's been a factor in both books leads me to believe that she'll be recurring.

Flemeth's part has always been benefactor AND villain. So I guess only time will tell.

I truely hope that bioware has future plans for Morrigan. She's been a phenomenal character. Even the actors have made comments about her in interviews about the game. And with Gaider's affinity for recurring plot devices, I can definitely see her returning at some point in time. (Not to mention that she's a major marketing item. She was splashed all over every single marketing campaign for the game!)

What her interaction with the warden will be, is yet to be seen. Especially if she appears in the expansion planned for release next month. If the player is playing their former character, and they had romance, will that continue, or has she broken her ties? If the player chooses a new character, will the new Warden remind her of the former, and cause distance between them? Or draw her closer to the new Warden?

[brokenergy]

Finished the book last night. What you were talking about with Fiona was in the last chapter. So now I can comment.

I very strongly think that Al was the son that she brought to Maric. 1) Duncan promised to watch over him. Which, he eventually brought Al into the Wardens. 2) The thought Maric had, of how much he looked like Cailen. I just played Return to Ostagar last night, and seeing the two of them side by side (Cailen and Alistair) they are practically the SAME model, but with different hair. I had noticed the resemblance on my very first playthrough, but not knowing that they could be brothers, I thought that maybe it was just that they didnt use that many models for the game. And then had forgotten about it. The resemblance between them I mean.

3) The fact that Fiona wanted to hide his identity goes along with some comments (by players) that have been made that the story about his mother being a maid is just a cover up. 4) The fact that he (Duncan) was so close to Alistaire. I mean, he was very close to Fiona. And he had a healthy repect for Maric.

LOL tho it left me witht he question of- WHAT is it with Maric and Elves? Haha, I know that part of his attraction to Fiona was because of his first love, Kat. But geeze! And he obviously had a dungeon fetish. I mean, he bedded both of them in the deep roads!

 

There are rumors about Alistair being Fiona's kid, but that is not for certain. Maybe in the squeal Fiona would explain more (if we would ever see her at all that is)

 

The Children? EH? Where was this mentioned?

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Age...ins_-_Awakening

 

The weird creature you see in the picture is 'The Children'

 

I definitely think that BW has future plans for Morrigan. Obviously that kid is too big of a plot device for them to pass up. And considering the fact that Flemeth is mentioned in the ending, as well as the fact that Morrigan says that she'll be back, yes I agree. Also considering that she's been a factor in both books leads me to believe that she'll be recurring.

Flemeth's part has always been benefactor AND villain. So I guess only time will tell.

I truely hope that bioware has future plans for Morrigan. She's been a phenomenal character. Even the actors have made comments about her in interviews about the game. And with Gaider's affinity for recurring plot devices, I can definitely see her returning at some point in time. (Not to mention that she's a major marketing item. She was splashed all over every single marketing campaign for the game!)

What her interaction with the warden will be, is yet to be seen. Especially if she appears in the expansion planned for release this month. If the player is playing their former character, and they had romance, will that continue, or has she broken her ties? If the player chooses a new character, will the new Warden remind her of the former, and cause distance between them? Or draw her closer to the new Warden?

 

Have you done Summoning Sciences side quest? There is a 4th exercise that is not documented. I replayed the game to that particular part and I found the notes of Arl Foreshadow (Foreshadow from BG series) and I can assume where the next installment would be.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_Entr..._Arl_Foreshadow

 

I personally don't think we'll see Morrigan in this expansion. I just don't feel right to see her return so soon after she leaves you, maybe later in Orlais or somewhere beyond Ferelden. I agree about the interaction between The Warden (or a new Character) and Morrigan. I've been thinking about if Morrigan would continue Flemeth's traditions and I find that the answer is highly unlikely that she would continue expanding her own lifespan as I said it would take great power of a demon to perform such a task I feel and Morrigan is not known to make deals with demons (I know is there somewhere, just don't remember where).

[DarkeWolf]

For me, about Al being Fiona's kid.... as the ol' magic 8 balll used to say "Signs point to Yes". After reading the last book, it just gives me too much that would steer me away from him being her kid.

odd irony tho... the son of a mage becoming a templar.....

 

checked out the link, still no clue who the children are, lol. thanks for trying tho. I did a search on it on google, that wasnt too productive.

 

Summoning sciences. Nope, havent even heard of it. I'll google the quest tomorrow and see if I can get to it on one of my earlier saves.

 

I guess that whether or not Morrigan continues the tradition of body snatcher pretty much boils down to whether or not Gaider wants to keep her around, like he has Flemeth. But, while she may not be open to the idea of dealing with the devil, so to speak.... she may have the power of an old god in her hands. that should be sufficient to power whatever it is that transfers her into a new body. even if it's not the KID's body.

 

I really, really hope that if they do bring her back that Claudia Black is chosen to do the follow up voice overs. It might be me, but I'm a Farscape fan, and there's a LOT about Morrigan that reminds me of the Earlier episodes Earyn Sun. having her as the voice of morrigan just seems to....Fit.

[tinylewtgriffon]

Morrigan headed into the Mountains so I think she headed West. Whatever lands are that way is probably where you'd go if BW made the expansion when you go after Morrigan

[brokenergy]

I know and I want to see Alistair as Fiona's kid but the writers did not conform it so it is up in the air. As for Morrigan not continuing her mother's traditions is more my feeling that something darker is at work. Why the child? Why expanding your own lifespan when the child has a limited lifespan and is susceptible to the very same genetic disorder as you are trying to runaway from? Why the archdemon's powers? Morrigan is nothing more than a pawn of Flemeth's grand scheme (she even knows it). This is Flemeth's grand plan not Morrigan's. Morrigan is trying to hide from her mother and the ring was part of her plan. Some bigger is at work and only the Witch of the Wilds know the true threat. I don't think the sequel would be the next 50 years after the 5th Blight, rather that all Blights would be eradicated close to each other in different ways (such as using the kid to find the last two archdemons and killing it). So much for body snatching. This is just different ideas I'm going to make a new post about the sequel in the spoiler page to discuss more about it.

 

I don't know much about 'The Children' only that there is a picture of it but I did catch a sneak peak of one of your new companions though.

 

Edit: I lied here is a link to 'The Children' http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/The_Children

[DarkeWolf]

interesting! so if the are a spawn of the architect, perhaps he makes an appearance too! Two intelligent darkspawn could be interesting.

 

I agree, I think that Morrigan is heading for Orlais. She was spotted in the frostback mountains which heads west for Orlais. Either that, or there's something around Orzammar that she's interested in. I mean, wintery mountains isnt exactly a good place for a pregnant woman to be. Has to be a reason for it.

 

I would love to see an expansion where you go after her. But I agree with Broken Energy...BioWare has something planned for that kid.

 

I've revamped my thoughts of her using the kid as a host. You're right, it's limited lifespan doesn't fit. But if it was sacrificed, and it's energies used for a ritual or something?

 

Why kill the old gods? Don't get me wrong, I am a firm believer that the world is a better place WITHOUT gods in it. But they aren't necessarily evil. They are imprisoned, and call out to the only ones that can hear them, the darkspawn. its the darkspawn taint that corrupts them, twists them, and sends them out on paths of destruction. (Another reason why I dont think Flemeth's plan will work out the way that they want it to, for the kid if they plan to keep it alive).

Anyway, why not send them back to the fade? If I'D been locked up in a hole underground for so many centuries, if I got out, I'd wanna go home.

 

I agree. I dont think the sequal will be a far off future either. Granted, it could be just for a continuity of gameplay, but I think that if that was the plan (to put it many years from now) they would have let more time pass from when the warden ends the blight, and what happens in the expansion thats coming out next month.

What I mean, is that events in the expansion is goign to happen only a few months after you end the blight. Not years.

At least, I hope not. have had too many games like that, where you play through it then another one comes out, and everybody that you knew is either dead, or so old they have one foot in the grave.

[w00teh]

The assumption that Morrigan/Flemeth planned to possess the child is valid, but the assumption that they would be capable of doing so might not be as valid.

 

Consider that the child would now have the power of an Old God, what makes it likely that Morrigan or Flemeth would be capable of just jumping into that body? It's not like it's just any other body that Flemeth has possessed, this one has power beyond any human, elf or dwarf. The Darkspawn taint is beyond the understanding of demons, which is explained by Avernus in the Warden's Keep DLC, no doubt Flemeth and Morrigan obviously believe they're capable of atleast harnessing the power of the god child, and no doubt Morrigan atleast believes you can never find her again. My thoughts is that because you were capable of "sensing" the Archdemon initially, it's highly likely that you'd possess the same ability to "sense" this child, after all he is just the Archdemon reborn in another body. I also believe that both Flemeth and Morrigan will be in for a surprise regarding their plans for this child, noone has ever trapped the Soul of an Old God, and neither Flemeth nor Morrigan would have any idea on just how powerful an Old God is.

 

As to what i would want out of this? Well my character has always been pragmatic, instead of killing the kid first, he'd be looking at how to obtain the power first no matter how unethical. I was rather annoyed at the fact that even though you can take the Grimoire for yourself, you can't do anything with it...

[DarkeWolf]

The assumption that Morrigan/Flemeth planned to possess the child is valid, but the assumption that they would be capable of doing so might not be as valid.

 

Consider that the child would now have the power of an Old God, what makes it likely that Morrigan or Flemeth would be capable of just jumping into that body? It's not like it's just any other body that Flemeth has possessed, this one has power beyond any human, elf or dwarf. The Darkspawn taint is beyond the understanding of demons, which is explained by Avernus in the Warden's Keep DLC, no doubt Flemeth and Morrigan obviously believe they're capable of atleast harnessing the power of the god child, and no doubt Morrigan atleast believes you can never find her again. My thoughts is that because you were capable of "sensing" the Archdemon initially, it's highly likely that you'd possess the same ability to "sense" this child, after all he is just the Archdemon reborn in another body. I also believe that both Flemeth and Morrigan will be in for a surprise regarding their plans for this child, noone has ever trapped the Soul of an Old God, and neither Flemeth nor Morrigan would have any idea on just how powerful an Old God is.

 

As to what i would want out of this? Well my character has always been pragmatic, instead of killing the kid first, he'd be looking at how to obtain the power first no matter how unethical. I was rather annoyed at the fact that even though you can take the Grimoire for yourself, you can't do anything with it...

 

Actually, there's a big difference between the Archdemon and the child, as far as being able to sense it, as the child. The archdemon had been subjected to a huge amount of the taint. Enough to corrupt an old god. The child, is born with it, meaning that it has equal or less amount of the taint than a Warden does. The archdemon was a huge, blinding spotlight to the warden senses. Most wardens can't sense the taint in each other unless they are phenomenally sensative to the taint. Kell, in the book was one of the only wardens that had been known to be able to do it.

 

I fully agree that they may be getting a whole lot more than they bargained for. The phrase be "careful what you wish for" comes to mind, big time.

 

Thats one big flaw that I saw in all that, about the soul of the god being drawn to the child. Something that Morrigan was obviouosly leaving out when she was telling us about the ritual. First off, it's not even an embryo after the first night. It would barely be even recognizable as a mixture of DNA.

What Im trying to get it as it that I dont think the "demon" would recognize it as an inhabitable body. My belief is that Morrigan lied about that, and I also think that Flemeth's power would have been needed to pull that soul in, so to speak.

 

This has been a great discussion. My views and thoughts about the whole situation have changed quite a bit from it!

 

LOL I know that it's really off topic, but I've been replaying vids of the demon's end. If you've got Morrigan and NOT wynn in the party when you kill it, do you guys catch the doubtful look that either Loghain or Alistaire shoots at morrigan right before the demon explodes?

 

Oh, and Energy- I tried playing that quest that you were talking about in th tower. I wasnt ever able to find that 4th piece to be able to fully complete the summoning science. I can get thru the 3rd summoning, but hte 4th one doesn't work :(