spoiler Discuss- the Flemmeth/Morrigan Relationship

[brokenergy]

I don't know for sure either. Morrigan sounds like a little brat to me who hates her mum badly at one point and is indifferent the next. But I do feel that she and the warden are connected in a spiritual way, sort of like a fellowship pact.

 

And yes March 16th is going to solve a bit of things and cause more questions I'm for sure.

[Suilebhain]

Flemeth didnt actually "rule" the wilds. She never claimed it as domain, she never made an effort to take control of anybody that had been living there (as in sayin, I'm the new queen, you now serve me, where are your taxes?). She simply made it known that there were powerful dangers in there, made the surrounding neighbors afraid of her, and killed anybody who got too close to her. For the most part, she dug a den, hid in that den, and killed anything that got too close to her den. Pretty much like a badger. or, she moved in, let it be known that there was a creepy old lady living in the creepy old haunted house down the street. dont go play in her yard, or you'll end up in her stewpot.

 

Heheh. You took me too literally there. I didn't mean she ruled the wilds like a queen, more like a....hmmm...dragon. That she was the baddest critter on the block, and when she desired some playtime, she got it at others' expense. More like a hoodlum would rule a neighborhood than royalty would rule a kingdom.

 

 

When did morrigan say "I never agreed to this"? I havent seen that dialog. I HAVE seen dialog (last night when I was breaking up with her, actually) where she said that flemeth forced her to come along with the warden tho.

 

I thought she said something like that when Flemeth announced that she would be leaving with the wardens, right after coming out and telling Flemeth that the stew was ready.

 

Morrigan sounds like a little brat to me who hates her mum badly at one point and is indifferent the next.

 

You could only really call Morrigan a brat if she was raised in a good, stable home and behaved as she does. She is a product of her upbringing - a ruthless, cunning vamp driven by a desire to be more powerful than anyone and seeing any act of goodness as weakness. That she sees that there are other ways of existing and has moments of doubt about the "rightness" of her lifestyle brings her to hate her mother, as is learned through listening to the tales she relates around the fire. Note how she changes the subject or cuts off the conversation each time it gets uncomfortable for her, when she is forced to admit that she got the shaft in some way. She is like the child of a career criminal, taught to grift, rob, and maybe even kill to get her way. yet, along the way, she sees the goodness in chilling with the animals, or observing people from afar, or possessing a trinket like a mirror.

 

As you can tell, I like the Morrigan character, she is the deepest, most complex character by far, and if the plotline allowed for it, I would have had my character try to help her to redemption. In the end, when the warden says, "I will come after you" or somethign like that, I meant it in a positive way. Unfortunately, the game does not allow for the Warden to actually love Morrigan in the way that he can love Leliana or she can love Alistair (or he, if you play that way).

[brokenergy]

No no that's not what I meant. Not the slightest. I'm saying that she has a choice to be herself but chooses to do what her mother commands her to do. She is a pawn to Flemeth, nothing more. That is why she is raised to uphold power over everything else and to be wary of men; because it allows her to be more powerful and it would be easier for Flemeth to take over her body.

[DarkeWolf]

Dangit, I just canNOT remember the actress' name who did the voice of Flemeth! It's Kate something or another, I think, I can only remember that she played Kathryn Janeway on Star Trek Voyager.

ANYWAY- the interview that I read on her while I was at school the other night. She was vague about it (probably contractual agreements) but she stated that Flemeth and Morrigan had a pretty poor/bad relationship. Partially due to actually letting Morrigan get closer to her than she cared for. And that Flemeth was Jealous of Morrigan. (Most likely because she possessed youth and beauty which Flem wasn't able to take for herself yet, but that was not stated in the interview).

So I guess that would go a little bit of a ways to give the reason for why mora would hate her mother. Besides, two women living together in solitude for so long are going to end up getting catty with each other. Its just the nature of the female hormone system, then combine it with the personalities involved.

 

Bratty. Yes, that, and sometimes more.

 

Heheh. You took me too literally there. I didn't mean she ruled the wilds like a queen, more like a....hmmm...dragon. That she was the baddest critter on the block, and when she desired some playtime, she got it at others' expense. More like a hoodlum would rule a neighborhood than royalty would rule a kingdom.

Sorry, yeah, I guess I did. Sorry bout that.

 

Oh! Ok, yeah, when they met the warden recruits, and Flemeth sent her off with them. She did protest it then. But it had to be an act then. I mean, Flemeth taught her the sex ritual magic, before she left. She had to have been informed of why she was being sent. Some of her other dialogs (and attitudes, if there's an active relationship) suggest that she was part of that plan from the start.

And well.... when she leaves to show you out, don't you think that she was awfully quick to say "Well then, I suppose that I shall lead you out of the woods then" ?

Or whatever it was. I noticed that the VERY first time I played it. I was sitting here going "What the hell??? Was that just bad acting or progamming??"

 

You could only really call Morrigan a brat if she was raised in a good, stable home and behaved as she does. She is a product of her upbringing - a ruthless, cunning vamp driven by a desire to be more powerful than anyone and seeing any act of goodness as weakness. That she sees that there are other ways of existing and has moments of doubt about the "rightness" of her lifestyle brings her to hate her mother, as is learned through listening to the tales she relates around the fire. Note how she changes the subject or cuts off the conversation each time it gets uncomfortable for her, when she is forced to admit that she got the shaft in some way. She is like the child of a career criminal, taught to grift, rob, and maybe even kill to get her way. yet, along the way, she sees the goodness in chilling with the animals, or observing people from afar, or possessing a trinket like a mirror.

You've just summed up some of the reasons why the actors (voice actors) that were involved with this character love her so much.

a lot of it, because of the massive complexity involved with her personality.

 

And to some degree, you do actually make an impact on her. Like I said, you can have a positive or negative influence on pretty much all the party members. But if you are playing the "nice guy" character in your dialogs with her, you'll notice that by the end of the game, she b**ches a LOT less about most of the decisions that you make (except for the forge, she REALLY wanted to use that!)

Granted, thats not any of the decisions based on your *ahem* personal... decisions with her. Thats a battle all in itself. hahaha.

Obviously, she's not ever gonna be the "June Cleaver" of DragonAge. But yeah, her outlook on things improves. Now, I guess we will just have to see (IF they bring her back again) how her time away will affect that. Will she contemplate the new things she's learned, and better herself from it? Or will she revert back to her former ways? Or, will her feelings make her even more bitter, as they did with Flemeth?

 

I am actually glad that you COULDNT have the kind of relationship that you could have had with Leliana, or Alistaire. Because of the fact that this IS a character that they are Taking Away. (At least for now)

My feeling on this, is that yes...there ARE going to be younger minds playing this game, and establishing the relationship with this character. Players that aren't as mentally and EMOTINALLY developed as say, a more mature player. Some of these types have a penchant for getting WAY too involved in games, and have unhealthy reactions when bad things happen from these games.

What I mean is, we've all seen it on the news or in the papers about kids in their early teens that have had violent reactions to things that have happened involving games. The most recent that I can think of is a kid that went postal at school and shot up some of his fellow students because his parents took WoW away from him.

Basically individuals that are outcasts, and have emotional problems, that develop the games as part of their actual lives, because, well...their lives SUCK in their perception.

I think that the limits on the relationship with Mora does have the potential for disaster, with these types, but because it isn't as in depth as it can be with other characters, that it lessens that potential.

Ok, nuff of sounding like a parent, it's making me ill, LOL.

[brokenergy]

Come on Drake, Morrigan is the pinup doll of Dragon Age. In every game there is a pinup doll and it is most likely a chick. EA had just announced the rough date for the release of DA2 (which is about Jan-Mar 2011) and we all know that she is coming back.

 

Edit: But yeah Morrigan is one of the most complex characters in the game and of all the potential relationships you could have in the game, I have to say that hers is the most satisfying. You could see that her leaving you screams "I'm coming back, baby" or something closer to that.

[DarkeWolf]

Actually it's DaRke not DRake ;) No worries tho, that happens a lot.

 

Oh yeah, she most definitely is that. She's splashed all over every advert for the game that I've ever seen. You're not the only one who's said that about her's being the most satisfying relationship in the game.

Not that I'm trying to be disagreeable or anything, I guess I'm just a lil bit more needy about emotional content. NOT that I could get any kind of serious emotional attachment to a video game character. But I will profess that if she doesnt play a very active role in the expansion that I'll definitely miss having her around.

 

Thats awesome that they've released info about an upcoming sequel!! But, oh what to do until it comes out! haha!

[brokenergy]

Thats awesome that they've released info about an upcoming sequel!! But, oh what to do until it comes out! haha!

 

Try to be gullible and fall into EA's cash-cow DLC scheme.

[DarkeWolf]

Thats awesome that they've released info about an upcoming sequel!! But, oh what to do until it comes out! haha!

 

Try to be gullible and fall into EA's cash-cow DLC scheme.

;D HAHAHAHA good one!!!

 

Actually, I'm waiting for the my Mass Effect 2 that I bought on ebay to get here, so that I can kill some time till the 16th.

[DarkeWolf]

new thought. When I was replaying the tower, I had a conversation with Morrigan about her mother's first grimoire. During that conversation, she had a couple of comments about "old ways" and/or "old things" should be preserved.

This, coming a LONG time before there's any mention of preserving the soul of the old god.

remembering that may change my mind a little bit on Mora's motivation. Maybe she really does believe that's the end goal of her having the kid. Or maybe that's HER end goal, regardless of what Flemeth's is. OR, maybe she knows that Flemeth had a different result in mind for the kid, and thats a part of the reason why Mora wanted her out of the picture?

 

Dont get me wrong. I still believe that Mora is driven by a desire for power. But maybe this is a second motive?

[Suilebhain]

Good point! I'll have to try to observe that next time through the tower.

 

If you think about it, Morrigan mentions more than a few times the validity of belief in something outside of herself. Even Flemeth discusses her "dancing under the moon" and we dismiss it as Flemeth's ravings but maybe she is telling truth at that point - that Morrigan really does have a belief in some sort of Nature-related deities.

 

Now, she does argue against the Maker, but that would be fueled by her hatred for all things Chantry. When she discusses the elves, for example, she defends their belief structure to Leliana. So, belief in the Old Gods? A desire to restore one to the world? Definite food for thought. That would make her some sort of pagan Mary.

 

Kate Milgrew.