spoiler Discuss- the Flemmeth/Morrigan Relationship

[DarkeWolf]

Ok this is not in order but it will answer some questions:

 

(In relation to the ring) No, if you live you can feel Morrigan's regret through her ring (it doesn't matter if you perform the ritual or not). The ring has to be in your inventory in order to happen.

 

(Sten and Morrigan's relationship) Morrigan would have been testing Sten's discipline rather than seducing him for her own pleasure (She's trying to seduce you instead). That or she has a thing for big men.

 

(Morrigan and the Warden's relationship) I really do think that she may have had some small, deep feelings for you (by small I mean 0.0001%). We can see it by her jealousy with other women that the Warden meets during the game and the regret. I think the reason she breaks of the relationship is because that she needs to prepare for something that is worse than the Archdemon and cannot wander from her responsibilities that Flemeth has entrusted her at this time. If there is a DA2 and if BW decide to bring back Morrigan, maybe things would be different with your imported character this time. I don't know if BW decide to re spark that romance or not or even make her a main character but chances are that she and Flemeth are going to have major roles in the sequel.

 

(Mages and Templars) Besides mage warden, could you state an example in-game please?

 

(Elves and Dragons) DA2 has something to do with the fall of the elves and more on the old gods (Foreshadow's notes). Lets hope they don't screw up and choke.

 

 

Mages and templars- new joins, initiates and midlevel mages arent supposed to go anywhere without being watched. even the senior mages are under scrutiny, but the lower level mages are supposed to be always watched.

 

In sten's case it could also be a curiosity, since so very little is known of the Quinari in ferelden. Or yeah...maybe she does have a thing for big men, lol. LOL that could also be her regret...that vaunted "warden stamina" hahaha.

 

ah, I was actually wearing it when I ended the game. interesting. I'll go back and try that.

 

New thought. Ok, I agree on the jealousy here. I do. But.... also if another woman comes along, that threatens her possibility of the mating.

[roninsoul7]

I have to confess, I hit the dialogue options on the dragon age wikia to look for stuff between morrigan and sten, it had me laughing all over again. I don't think she is really serious about the whole thing, I really do think she is teasing to get a rise out of the quiet one, that is until he decides that enough is enough and uses an aptly twisted way to shut her down for good.

 

P Control? Now I have heard of that over time, but only ever had one of my ex's try it. If you have been a victim of such nefarious plans, the fix is simple, smile, dump her while still smiling, and ask for her cute friends phone number. Beware that fix usually involves a confrontation of some sort, but being manipulated, or at least the attempts end at that point. As for how it relates to Morrigan, she concedes herself in one conversation with dog about "He is just being manipulative, trust me, I do the same thing." so yes she could be trying such a thing, but when coming towards someone who came up the the aforementioned fix for such manipulations as I did, it would severely backfire, and I am pretty sure that she wouldn't be taking the chance on something she deemed important. The best way to get a man to concede to a woman's desires, is to always give in to his (one of my ex's taught me that) and so would have been the better choice.

 

Which leads to the jealousy part, she has two options for that mating, 1 if you play a female character, but that still means that if she were purely there for making you do the deed, then when she still has the option of Alistar, who lets admit is an easy dimwit who would probably jump at the chance to do someone finally, even a woman he considers a total B*****, also could be manipulated easier than your warden as well, depending on how you play him.

 

Keep in mind, my favourite warden is a human male rogue that I named Raven (after my native ancestry's trickster god) that is infinitely practical, lose with women (why so no to them when yes is so much more fun?) and throws off any attempt to control him, I even had him telling his father such things as "Oh, don't strain my capabilities or anything." in his introduction to begin him off on the right foot so to speak. Now given that, the only way Morrigan would keep him in her power in the least, would to be to shut up, follow her word (he keeps his word, just rarely gives it) about everything being open, and bide her time. That isn't a possibility, so I shrugged my shoulders and moved him onto Lelianna pretty fast. As for her KS'ing you Darke, I have them do that to me all the time, I just shrug it off as a poor game mechanic where most of my party in full plate are faster than me in leather and clothing, and move onto the next unwilling participant of my game of Slaughter the Tard that Slows MY Progress, a fun game let me tell you, nothing is more satisfying than slashing your way merrily through groups of idiots that want to slow you down.

 

As for the templars who are supposed to follow the mages, I didn't really notice that much at any point, I should probably read codex's more, but the only time I run into magic folk past lothering and the circle of magi, there is nary a templar to be found.

[brokenergy]

New thought. Ok, I agree on the jealousy here. I do. But.... also if another woman comes along, that threatens her possibility of the mating.

 

The problem is that Morrigan stated that the Warden could do what ever he wants, that includes relationships with multiple women (not that I promote the practice). But why does she get so hyped up when the Warden is with another woman? For example when you have a choice to kiss Bella in Redcliff, Morrigan gets pissed but Oghren gets turned up amusing enough. Many women are very sensitive when their man is with another woman, but why is Morrigan contradicting her own statement if she is one of those who doesn't care? I think she really does care about the Warden secretly but doesn't want to admit to it (that's why she gives you the ring). Also remember that she may have been raised by Flemeth and taught to uphold power beyond everything else but she is no way like Flemeth in personality. Morrigan can change her views if she wants (she hasn't suffered like Flemeth) to but Flemeth is bitter about everyone because of her past and it this pain that fuels her and passes it on to her own daughters.

[DarkeWolf]

Well, see..... this comes back to what I was saying earlier on about my experiences with open ended relationships. (Which I also don't advise making a practice of, btw). One, or both end up either being possessive or jealous of the other, unless both are in multiple relationships.

I do agree that she does indeed start to care about the warden. In my mind, its a combination of two things. 1) She knows she has to leave. I had a relationship with a gal that was going to be moving away in a few weeks. That was extremely difficult, because you know you cant get too attached, because pretty soon, they are going to be GONE. And when you try to fight those kinds of feelings, you end up making it WORSE on yourself. Which is another reason why some peeps end up getting a little bit nutty in a open ended relationship.

2) She views love as a weakness. She's said it several times. This is NOT something that she wants, something that she actually feels strongly against, and something that she has no idea how to deal with, having never loved or been loved, before. Its something completely alien, that she doesn't like, and feels helpless to it. For somebody who has a character/personality like this, and believes like she does, she is basically fighting against what is, in her mind...what most of us would consider SLAVERY.

But yet....somewhere deep down inside, she actually wants it. Yeah, that is going to piss a person off. She takes it out on leliana in the banters, she takes it out on the warden, if you get that "what is love" conversation, and you keep the relationship going, by calling you a selfish basterd.

[brokenergy]

I know people are like that in many cases but that's the beauty of her character isn't it? She's out of her comfort zone and doesn't know what to do so she tries to push people away because she hasn't experienced situations like these before. Just one question though, do you know what is she regretting about?

[DarkeWolf]

LOL yeah, very, very true that. When looking at it that way, I guess thats the consequences of her choosing to be such a tampon at the beginning of her journeys with the Warden's group.

 

About her regret--- I have only my own conjectures, nothing conclusive. :(

[brokenergy]

I was hoping that there was something in the epilogue as I haven't finished the game yet (Had to make new characters 6 times as they were deleated by someone). I'm near the end though. Morrigan's regret could be split into several points in my opinion:

 

a) She regrets lying to you and doing her mother's dirty work

 

b) She regrets falling in love with you

 

c) She regrets leaving you

 

d) She regrets giving you the ring and tinkering with it

 

There could be more but I'm too tired to think at the moment

[DarkeWolf]

I'm tellin ya, she misses the vaunted warden stamina.

 

Seriously tho, I have no idea. They leave it as a cliffhanger. Something to the effect of

"A sense of regret, and then nothing"

so most likely, she chucked her version of the ring. Which, would make sense, since if the warden still has their's, they might figure out how to track her with it, and she doesnt wanna be found.

 

When you choose your final party, you get a bunch of cuts where you say goodbye to everyone before you head into the frying pan. and if you pick morrigan to be on your team (you obviously have to agree to the rit to have her on your team) you get a dialog option of something like "I was hoping that you'd changed your mind"

 

Oh HOLY PIDGEON CRAP!!! I just unlocked a scene I'd never seen before. I was replaying the scene so to give you the dialog she says, and managed to get THIS! THIS is GOOD, I'll try to repeat it, and record it, and try to find a host where I can upload it to. Be back! This is.... Well, lets just say that this is a revelation that changes a LOT of opinions!!!

[DarkeWolf]

Here's where the file is located at Megaupload. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9LSC3IN0

 

 

Ok, first off, sorry that it's an AVI file, I know that some peeps have problems with those but it's what my game recorder records them as, and I don't have a file converter for vids :(

Also, sorry for the screen size, but it was necessary to keep the filesize down, in order to be able to find an upload host. :(

I had originally included all the steps in the vid, prior, but that one ended up being over a GIG in size!!! :blink: So I had to re-record it as just this scene.

And no, don't ask me to stream it, I dont have a youtube membership, and really don't want one!

 

 

I had Morrigan at 100% approval, and hardened. This savegame had NEVER given her the second grimoire, so her full romance, make love, and hardened apps were all active. And OBVIOUSLY I agreed to do the ritual (personallY) in order to still have her in the game.

 

 

Just before given the chance to pick the party selection, I chose to talk to her, and picked "I'd like to talk about last night". After she gave me her speech, I chose #4, "No I dont understand, why do you have to go" got her next spiel, lost -51 approval. I talked to her again, choosing "Can we at not least talk?" and pretty much get shut down.

 

After that, when Riordan wants to know who will go with you, I picked ONLY Morrigan for the team. And afterwards picked Sten to lead the group that stays behind (doubt that has anything to do with it, but giving all the facts that I can.)

 

When it came time to say the goodbyes, the option that I chose to use with her this time, is in the vid.

Usually, when I'd played this scene, she only said what she said about when this was over, she would be gone. Choosing the option that I did, she'd normally say, that it was tempting, you dont know how much but it wouldnt be wise. THIS time, I got some NEW lines of dialog that REALLY change a lot of opinions, and pretty much just shocked the crap out of me!!

 

I'll also upload my savegame for this one, if anybody wants to try to play this scene for themselves.

Now, you probably MUST have the Equal Love mod running, in order for this to work, or you won't be flagged as being an eligible candidate for romance for herand it will botch things up.

You may also have to overwrite one of your save games, or rename the folder it's in to a different save file number. They go up to 142, as far as I know.

You'll also probably get some errors about not having the same mods installed as me, but dont worry about that, just tell it to force load. In the savegames list, its listed as "Goodbyes".

 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ZDMCC45 the savegame file.

[brokenergy]

OMG!!!! She says it! She says it! I am shocked!

 

You were right, this will change many opinions about Morrigan and more so her regret (and no it wont be vaunted warden stamina but part of it). It will give so much new information. Thanks for uploading it Darke. I'll need to study this before posting back.