Nifskope / Blender - Keeping Smooth Normals

[BarryTGash]

Hey all,

 

Just started having a crack at modding, am currently trying a couple of ideas to reduce those dastardly neck seams - I realise probably every method under the sun has been tried, but I'm getting to learn about working with nifs, blender and other bits and pieces, so if all falls to hell it won't be a total loss.

 

I'm customising the Type 3 body for a specific character I'm working on...

 

The method I'm currently working on:

 

Edit the polys on the body that meet with the neck so there's the same number of vertices and that they meet (vital).

 

Then combine the head and body in the 3d app, with different materials assigned to each piece (I'm using C4d with the riptide obj importer/exporter). Exporting as an obj and bringing into nifskope to smooth the normals and reimporting into C4d whilst splitting the object according to materials. So, I'm back in c4d with two meshes in one file with a beautiful seamless transition.

 

Next, I've split the objects up to two different files.

 

Starting with the body, I've exported an obj and converted it into a nif in nifskope. I've imported this into Blender and copied the weights from the original upperbodyfemale.nif.

 

Here's where I'm falling down - on checking the nif generated by blender, by bringing into nifskope and exporting as an obj, then importing into c4d the smooth normals I created earlier have gone - the nif generated from blender did not store them from what I can tell (or perhaps they are not imported from the original nif from nifskope?)

 

Now, my question - thanks for bearing with me if you made it this far!!! - is there a way for blender to export the normals as they were on import through the nif exporter? I can't see a particular 'Export Normals' button - but I could be missing something. I've attached a pic of my export settings for review.

 

I suppose the next question is, assuming blender/niftools can't export the normals, is there any other way of copying the weights over from the original nif? I've tried to copy the obj in nifskope and paste over the original nitrishapedata but gives me an version warning and pastes with gaping holes in the mesh. Even trying to paste over the blender exported nif does the same, despite being an identical mesh :/

 

Anyway, thanks in advance.

 

Summary of images:

1. Reworked body and Head meshes, smoothed as one object in Nifskope and brought back into 3d app

2. Just to show they are two objects ;)

3. Exported body as obj, imported to Nifskope and exported to obj, then reimported to 3d app to show normals maintained

4. Exported body as obj, imported to Nifskope and saved as nif. Imported into Blender and re-exported as nif - original normals not there!!!

5. Blender Nif Export settings

[BarryTGash]

While I try to workaround the disappearing normals issue above, I thought I'd have a crack at matching texture seams. By combining the head and body textures in one document, one above the other (effectively doubling the height 2048*4096) and editing my 'mannequin's uv's to fit I was able to use projection painting and the clone tool to paint over the seams on both textures at once - some headway has been made, I think. Hopefully once I figure out the previous issue the combination of seamless textures and smoothed normals should provide a marked improvement.

 

Quick shot of the back of the neck in game, not perfect but making some progress I think. Just using a flat normal map at the moment, but the normal maps would use the mesh normals as their baseline and add to it (apparently!), so assuming the normal maps are seamless there's no reason to think they'll detract from the end result. The front of the neck is still shocking so no image :D

[BarryTGash]

After getting some invaluable help from Amorilia from the niftools forums, got the initial issue resolved. Not a bug, rather a situation of not wanting a usually required feature :)

 

The thread is here, if anyone's interested, but the results can be seen below, a screenshot of the nif exported from Blender with adjusted textures and NORMALS intact!

 

http://thepixelforge.net/Misc/BlenderNif.jpg

 

Next step is to get the head in game with the new normals. I have a nasty feeling it will mean creating new egm and tri file as the vert/face order will have changed throughout this process.

 

The image below is a shot of the above blender nif in-game, with default head and adjusted textures. It seems theres some weighting issues around the neck but I'm going to try with the unedited body mesh to see if the edits were unnecessary.

[TheChan]

No seam!

 

Well done.

[BadPenney]

Unfortunately, the problem with neck seams is not only a matter of matching the head and body meshes together. It is also a lighting issue that is inherent in the Fallout 3 program.

 

The head is illuminated separately from the body. The head and body will not cast shadows on each other, neither will they reflect light onto each other. So unless you view the combined parts in exactly the right conditions, the seam will still appear regardless of how you have manipulated the mesh.

 

Following are examples to demonstrate this lighting problem that I created for an earlier thread on the same subject. The image on the right is the neck seam as it appears in game under hard shadow conditions. The image on the left was Photoshopped to show a more realistic appearance that would be viewable if the head and body were lit as one solid object.

 

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/imageshare/images/1103832-1246211272.jpg

[TheChan]

Which could be fixed if Fallout just used a current gen engine.

[BarryTGash]

Ah crap - thanks for the heads up (no pun intended). This seems (no more puns!!!) more and more like a lesson in futility the further I investigate - but there has to be a solution, goddamit ;)

 

Ok, one more idea - how about using alpha channels to fade out the neck region and 'replace' with an armor/clothing mesh that sits in, say, Addon 1 or even choker/necklace slot, that is a combination of the neck and shoulders as one mesh. In my simple minded logic this would a) remove the need for edited body meshes and b) remove the need for a new head mesh and all that brings to the table (new egm and tri data for starts).

 

Or, alternatively, forcing the engine to render the head and body differently? It obviously recognises that something is a head and that something is a body - is it as simple as making sure that any body or face mesh loaded via the race system is rendered this way or is there some other system involved that'd force the engine to render something a certain way? I notice in some of the nifs that there is a 'skin' setting, as opposed to 'cloth'. I don't know, starting to clutch at straws here and starting to ramble ;)

 

Again, thanks for the feedback. Will report my findings!