Something Is Missing In Oblivion

[KzinistZerg]

I have to agree.

 

It seems to me like there's a lot more untapped potential in Oblivion. it has so much more POTENTIAL than Morrowind! And yet, a higher % of that potential was used in Morrowind; people could and did do a lot.

 

Yeah, and I have some problems with the ingredients. Was someone asleep when they programmed them in?

 

I mean, true, there's some nice stuff. But the ingredients that they had should not have had their effects changed (yeah, some were), they should have had some more stuff that was in morrowind (look, can't you just CALL it saltrice? Four extra letters, no problem...or even, put in the same mushrooms! The new mushies are fine, can't we include the two from Morrowind?).

 

I wan't a mod that adds in some of the ingredients from Morrowind!

 

EDIT: And Logic! I mean, you should have some effect VAGUELY related to the food you're going to use! Like, Garlic should damage or drain your personality, first or second effect. Fermentable stuff (grapes, potatoes) should have a fourth effect like drain intelligence and agility. Eating something that smells nice (dunno, maybe flower petals?) should fortify or restore personality; somehtign like spiddal stick should drain it... and so on.

[Stampede]

All I know is I can really roleplay my character in Oblivion, far more than in Morrowind...becoming head of a faction actually has proper benefits, there are an INCREDIBLE amount of locations and subquests....

 

Still waiting for someone to tell me what was so great about playing Morrowind once the main quest was over.

[brother_bunsen]

All I know is I can really roleplay my character in Oblivion, far more than in Morrowind...becoming head of a faction actually has proper benefits, there are an INCREDIBLE amount of locations and subquests....

 

Still waiting for someone to tell me what was so great about playing Morrowind once the main quest was over.

 

See, that's easy. The "incredible" amount of locations and subquests in Oblivion is fairly equal to the INCREDIBILE amount of locations and subquests in Morrowind with one slight difference - Morrowind's locations weren't all EXACTLY the same. Every fort in Oblivion, every Ayelid Ruin, every dungeon, every cave, they all are made out of a rotating combination of the same five models for the building - you have Cave room 1, cave room 2, cave room 3, cave hallway 1, cave hallway 2... it doesn't matter how many forts you visited, or whether they were restocked, because in Oblivion, every fort is exactly the same with a new location for the traps, loot and baddies. In Morrowind, however, most locations had their own unique feel to them, and every Dwemer ruin had a logical, non-linear progression like it had actually been inhabited. And just like how people are turning to mods to salvage the MASSIVE failings of Oblivion's storyline and flawed character development, people used mods to salvage the few problems/lack of more stuff to do in Morrowind - once again, there's one major difference, and that is that Morrowind had/has a lot more quality mods at this time.

 

And before the fanboys come screaming for me to "OMG you F***tard, why not just go play Morrowind, Mr. Morrowind lover man," that's exactly what I'm doing now, since Oblivion died for me in the first 20 hours of play, and ONE character in Morrowind has bought me HUNDREDS of hours in that game. I'm just waiting for anybody to make a quality mod, preferably a TC, which will give me a couple more hours in a game which I payed SO MUCH darned money for out of good faith after the quality of previous games by Bethesda.

[Malchik]

Well, after several days of Oblivion I think I can safely summarise the pros and cons for me. I have already given first impressions.

 

The games are not directly comparable but the changes can lead to valid comparisons.

 

Exterior graphics - Oblivion is a clear winner.

 

Interior graphics - Oblivion is rather slapdash in places, MW is probably better but the differences don't really affect the game enough to matter.

 

Dungeons - MW had much greater variety with Daedric and Dwemer ruins, Dunmer forts, wizard towers, caves, mines, grottos and ancestral tombs and (the less than enthralling) shipwrecks. Bloodmoon added Barrows and ice caves, Mournhold sewers and the clockwork city. Oblivion has Ayleid ruins, forts, mines and caves. I have to say the caves of MW were all much the same and perhaps that is unavoidable but the different types of dungeon combined to make the place feel there was much more variety. A definite win for MW there for me.

 

Factions and Faction Quests - only four factions plus the Arena compared to MW's 11 and no need to make choices. This reduces replayability for me. On the plus side the quests are more interesting and imaginative. On the downside they are much more linear giving very little opportunity to choose an order to play them in. Most unbelievable (again this is only my opinion) is that I can become Archmage knowing squat about magic, or Master of the FG with only stealth and magic skills. Furthermore I can do this at level one. MW had the right idea when the guilds required certain skills at certain levels to advance. Notwithstanding the fact that the quests are better (though fewer) faction questing comes nowhere close to MW IMO.

 

Main Quest - I have the same criticism about how easy it is to finish the main quest while at level one. However it perhaps matters less in that in moments of crisis ANY hero will do. The various parts of the quest are more interesting than much of MW's but also very much shorter. Oblivion sets off with a really cracking pace and that scores a big plus. The Oblivion gates get a bit repetitive but it isn't essential to do more than three and that can be coped with without boredom setting in. I didn't actually mind doing the 'aid for Bruma' gates that much but I had no wish to bother with the 50 other gates that appear over time. Overall I think this is where comparisons are difficult. I like parts of both and find irritations in both. Let me call it a tie.

 

Miscellaneous quests - here I vote strongly for Oblivion. Although some quests are basic, in general they are more imaginative and have elements of surprise largely missing in MW.

 

Radiant AI - it certainly adds something to the game but I hope it is improved should there be a TES V. Somehow it doesn't feel right that I can break into someone's house in the middle of the night and wake them up and indulge in pointless chit chat. They do threaten to call the guards afterwards. Bah - they should have set the dogs on me at once! And I look forward to more varied conversations to overhear next time too! But overall I'd call it a plus.

 

NPCs and dialogue - Oblivion scores in making NPCs look more individual (the face creation gives much greater opportunity for this) but then take this away by reducing dialogue for most characters to next to nothing and giving them all the same voices. MW was certainly dull in the repetitive dialogue boxes but in Oblivion, except during quests, no one has anything to say except (again repetitively) about rumours! Would it have been so difficult to give each NPC one or two unique comments? I don't think either MW or Oblivion quite gets it right.

 

Fast travel - I have no problem with this and see it as similar to MW's guild guides. The Oblivion area is so much bigger than MW it is probably essential especially as, at higher levels, travelling through the wilderness becomes a bit of a chore.

 

Horses - I approve of anything that adds variety.

 

Lockpicking game - hmm, I find clicking auto works just fine so it seems rather unnecessary but it may please some. IMO it would have been better to remove the auto choice and made it essential either to master the game or rely on spells.

 

Personality game - ludicrous, I have posted elsewhere. I don't disagree with the idea but with the way it has been done. I can max any NPC disposition in seconds and my speechcraft rockets up. It should have been made to cause problems (at least temporary ones) if you get it wrong. Then it would need more effort. E.g if the NPC disp hits nil they HAVE to be bribed heavily to be able to use the game again. And NPCs should not indicate likes or dislikes before the player has spoken. Oh that we had that luck in real life!

 

Bonuses on levelling up - a bit hit or miss I think. I don't know them all so I can't really comment further. However it's nonsense that higher level magic spells are more inefficient than lower level ones.

 

The maps - the paper maps with MW and expansions were useful, that with Oblivion is not. In game, the MW world map let you see where you had been in far more detail. The local maps were easier to use and could be annoteted to say which places you had been inside. MW wins on this. Dungeon maps are okay except as Switch has pointed out elsewhere they are not always clear when dealing with multiple levels. (The intrusive map markers giving you no option to make a mistake can be dealt with by not setting the quest as the currently active one.) And why do we get indications of five vampires in a small cave but nothing on the 100 Nirn roots needed to complete that quest? (All right, all right - I know the answer to that one.)

 

The journal - aka 'Questing for Dummies'. MW's journal was not perfect but Oblivion's - like the map markers - takes too much of the thrill out of the game. I try to avoid looking at it.

 

Levelled creatures - I find it illogical and unrealistic that creatures level with the player. It is certainly true that MW became far too easy at later stages even with the difficulty slider on 100. It is good that Oblivion is trying to address this but the result is a bit of a pig's breakfast. As you level up it is right that you should face tougher monsters, spider daedra instead of stunted scamps for instance. And some of the really high level creatures can go on levelling with the player. Maybe some better armed bandits will appear too but not suddenly every bandit has mithril armour? On the opposite side levelling down occurs too so I can become Arena champion at level one with ease and kill Mannimarco with two sword strokes. Some monsters should start at a level and stay there making them impossible to kill at level one but easier later. Some should level up. Finishing the Main and Faction quests at a very low level should not in my view be possible.

 

Roleplaying - I take Stampede's point that there are things in Oblivion that make it easier to feel you are roleplaying the character. For me they are counteracted by the fact that however much bigger Oblivion is in spacial terms the world it contains is much less varied.

 

There are other things I could mention but this post is already a marathon.

 

Overall I have to say I think MW is the better game. I enjoyed it without mods and again as mods were added. I feel short-changed by Oblivion. I hope mods and expansions will overcome this. Despite all these comments I would stress that much of Oblivion is good and I derive considerable enjoyment from parts of it. It is not however the huge advance on MW I was hoping for (and it could have been). Most people buying the game will surely derive much pleasure from it but those MW fans who hoped for a huge advance (and perhaps even an equivalent) will probably feel varying degrees of disappointment. I have found the best way to overcome the disappointments is to treat Oblivion as an unrelated game and play it to the full for what it is. Most of the time this works for me.

[daeanor]

There are a number of mods that fix the leveled creature thing, and IMO, they make the game much more fun to play. My current character is at level 13, and is having a heck of a time finishing quests; I don't dare even think about visiting Kvatch yet. I ran into my first spriggan trying to finish the Layawiin recommendation, and it has dropped me and my fire pet on several attempts without breaking a sweat. I have to now go out and build up a bit before trying again. My only consolation is I got a nearly full set of dwarven out of that dungeon. I'm running the Obscuro mod - mobs still level somewhat with you, but there is a min and max level (so I will never see an uber mubcrab, and I have to run like a sissy if I come across a minotaur and hope to heck he didn't see me). It also locks all the Daedric shrine quests to level 20+; much more realistic and challenging.

[Povuholo]

If a new game would be released now which was morrowind, but with physics and the improved graphics, it would be better than oblivion. Even without spoken dialogue, horses, etc.

 

As Malchik said, the dungeons have more variety in MW. When you enter an ayleid ruin, it is ayleid untill the end. While in MW an ancestral tomb could end up in a cave, the cave got half underwater and that led to an underground daedric ruin. This was in Morrowind, but in Oblivion there are less types, and they aren't mixed. They probably don't look nice together either..

[Ancalagon]

IMO that was what I loved with MW. Going dungeon or cave diving and stumbling upon an enormous Daedric door right smack in the side of a rock wall. It was a pleasurable experience delving into the unknown. I essentially share the same view as Malchik, I purchased MW when all expansions were out and the modding community was at it's highest participation, so I got lucky.

 

The leveled npcs and creatures are irritating. I refuse to believe that a bandit somehow got his hands on a full suit of Daedric or ebony armor with ease. If he did that, then why the hell is he a bandit still? He could hock the armor to some merchant and retire in style.

 

Radiant AI is bunk, half the time when an NPC asks another NPC a question, the response is some illogical or nonsensical tripe, often having little to do with the original question. The only time it "works" is if it is a scripted event pertaining to a quest. The only love I have for RAI is that I can place poison apples in the guards barracks at X town and come back within two weeks and have the guard problem taken care of. It's not so bad, now in reflection, but there's so much that needs fine tuning that it really should have been done rather than, say, making a worthless plugin for horse armor or making flashy little mini-games to distract from the obvious lack of content and depth in character dialogue.

 

I've stated in other posts, and I'll do so again, my biggest gripe is the lack of lore and dialogue. Storyline and Depth, in short. In MW I had a clear idea of what was going on in the Empire in relation to my character, and also had this strange sense of history due to the almost overwhelming amount of lore (books) providied to me. Not only did I have a story for myself, I had a backdrop and backstory of Tamriel with which to act upon. It was like shoving this world in my face and screaming "BELIEVE!". With Oblivion I'm not sure what my purpose is in the historical sense, everything seems rushed and slapdash. No backdrop or backstory, all dropped for combat and eye candy. Too hasty...hroom-hom. Unless I eavesdrop in on NPCs I'll get a hit or miss chance on what has happened in the X years since the Nerevarine Prophecy and in the Empire overall. Oh, that's swell that Redoran and the Nords are having a go, but WHY? Solstheim failed because "the money ran out"? WHY? Oh, Vivec disappeared? What happened to the ministry? Did it crash into the Cantons and kill people when he went *poof*? Why did Nerevar decide to go to Akavir? I need MORE than just some half-ass answer. It's insulting to me because it feels like Beth just threw that in there in some half-ass manner and then said "...but it's not really that important. Just go kill some s***"

 

I dunno, I hate to get going like that because it feels like I'm beating a dead horse, but these ARE legit complaints. If Beth is going to limit what modders can do on the CS for fear of being shown-up, then why don't they (Beth) do a better job in the first place? I'll probably get flamed for this, but I think Beth made a HUGE mistake when it decided that it was going to try and focus more on the Console market for TESIV. Because that's what this game feels like in almost all areas: a console game.

 

With MW I could not fathom someone playing it on a console, since it played more like a PC game. With Oblivion, it not only plays like a console game, I sometimes wonder if Beth had PC gamers in mind at ALL when they designed it, save for the CS. In short and IMO, they could have done better, but opted to satisfy the Console crowd instead since that sells more. What they gave us seems bare bones compared to MW.

 

Thus endeth my rant.

[Ancalagon]

bump.

 

sorry for the DP.

 

As if to be more insulting to the Modding Community, go to the main site for Oblivion and look at the new plugin titled "Thieves Den". Here, you are presented with a choice, either pay 1.85 for some crappy half-ass mod that comes with "x amount of new items and 15 new spells" or you can go and download or request a mod that does the same exact thing for free. I've seen at least two other "buried pirate ship" mods out there, and while they lack all the bells and whistles that the official plugin has, they're still just as good (somewhat) and I'm certain that once the big modders get at it they can produce a product that is better than what Bethseda is offering. What irritates me is that I know of at least a dozen modders that could do all this in their sleep, hence my rationale for Bethseda ripping people off (1.85 is nothing, but the principle is the thing). I hope people are seeing through the ruse by now, I still love this game, I just hate seeing Bethseda turning an obviously unfair profit on something that should be purely player controlled.

 

I just feel so cheated right now by Bethseda, bloody hell. Where's the justice?