Communism v. Socialism v. Capitalism v. Feudalism

[myrmaad]

I don't think name calling, as in "pinko commies" is appropriate. This will be a civil discussion.

[Kendo 2]

I don't think name calling, as in "pinko commies" is appropriate. This will be a civil discussion.

 

 

Okay, I'll be nice....But you knew what mindset I was referring to so it did get the point across.

 

And you didn't respond to my point...which is true. :woot:

[myrmaad]

I'm looking out for everybody, including you.

 

I have to run off and take care of my family, so maybe read through this discussion.

 

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/04/tax-burden-on-various-americans/

[Kendo 2]

.....so maybe read through this discussion.

 

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/04/tax-burden-on-various-americans/

 

Taken from 'Tax Burden on Various Americans'. One of the links in the blog.

 

"Add it all up, and you can see why the wealthy are paying a greater share of federal taxes even though they are paying less tax on each dollar they earn. They’re simply making many more dollars than they used to."

 

So thank you for proving my point. :thumbsup:

 

BUT listen to any Social Justice fanatic and they will NOT acknowledge the facts. How can they? It is just one more big lie foisted by Leftists to justify taking things that DO NOT BELONG TO THEM before they subjugate the 'evil enemy'. Marxists and their ilk need villians to sell their pablum and people with wealth fit the bill, just like the Acholi and Lango ethnic groups did for Idi Amin.

[myrmaad]

I chose that blog because both sides are represented.

[LSF894]

I don't believe any system works entirely and I don't think any system is completely fair. Even though this is meant to be funny, I think it's a simple way of explaining each system.

 

SOCIALIST

-------------------

You have two cows.

The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.

You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow.

 

COMMUNIST

--------------------

You have two cows.

The government seizes both and provides you with milk.

You wait in line for hours to get it.

It is expensive and sour.

 

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE

--------------------

You have two cows.

You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

 

(http://www.politicalforum.com/humor-satire/12958-political-cow-analogy.html)

 

Which one's fairer? Socialism is trying to suit everyone's needs because "we're all equal." Communism just takes control of everything you own and your life. Might as well implant chips into you and control you that way. Capitalism allows you to work your way up to the top but, if you listen to some, at the expense of the people at the bottom.

 

The thing I don't understand about socialism is, if I've got this right, it seems to be the system where you don't have to work to earn your keep. I was reading something someone said. "The only way we can carry on is to eliminate the REQUIREMENT to work and change it to a DESIRE to work. The only answer for that is socialism." Is that really true?

 

Communism, as I've said just takes over people's lives. Your life is run by the government and, according to Marx, we're in a social development heading towards pure communism. No thank you...

 

Capitalism allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up to the top. Some people think this is unfair because everyone should have that opportunity but I think if you're not willing to work then why should you be allowed to get to the top? Why should people work all their lives to get to the top and you able to just get there without working a single day?

[grannywils]

I don't believe any system works entirely and I don't think any system is completely fair. Even though this is meant to be funny, I think it's a simple way of explaining each system.

 

SOCIALIST

-------------------

You have two cows.

The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.

You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow.

 

COMMUNIST

--------------------

You have two cows.

The government seizes both and provides you with milk.

You wait in line for hours to get it.

It is expensive and sour.

 

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE

--------------------

You have two cows.

You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

 

(http://www.political...w-analogy.html)

 

Which one's fairer? Socialism is trying to suit everyone's needs because "we're all equal." Communism just takes control of everything you own and your life. Might as well implant chips into you and control you that way. Capitalism allows you to work your way up to the top but, if you listen to some, at the expense of the people at the bottom.

 

The thing I don't understand about socialism is, if I've got this right, it seems to be the system where you don't have to work to earn your keep. I was reading something someone said. "The only way we can carry on is to eliminate the REQUIREMENT to work and change it to a DESIRE to work. The only answer for that is socialism." Is that really true?

 

Communism, as I've said just takes over people's lives. Your life is run by the government and, according to Marx, we're in a social development heading towards pure communism. No thank you...

 

Capitalism allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up to the top. Some people think this is unfair because everyone should have that opportunity but I think if you're not willing to work then why should you be allowed to get to the top? Why should people work all their lives to get to the top and you able to just get there without working a single day?

 

 

I think that your first part while meant to be a joke, did do a fairly good job at giving a somewhat over simplified description of the 3 governmental systems. But after that, I think your argument falls apart at least a little bit in your interpretations of both socialism and capitalism. I do not claim to be an expert on socialism, but

I'm not aware that it's underlying principal is that one not be required to work. I believe it is more a matter of everyone being given an equal opportunity from the very beginning. i.e. education, healthcare, employment opportunities, etc. Thus the opportunities are available for all from the very start. As far as capitalism is concerned, I have a little more experience since I live in the United States. I would not necessarily use the expression that it "allows" you to start at the bottom and work your way up. Although many have done just that quite successfully. Many have also started at the top, depending on the families into which they were born. They may or may not have worked a day in their lives. They are wealthy not necessarily from having worked hard all their lives, but rather from being born into the lap of luxury. There are also many, many more who, as you have so rightly stated, have worked very hard their entire lives, and are extremely far from wealthy, but are in fact living just at or in some cases below the poverty level. They did not "make it to the top" no matter how hard they worked or were willing to work. So, as it turns out, Capitalism is not quite as simple as it sounded in your brief description. As far as Communism is concerned, I think someone said it sounds good on paper, but it has never really worked anywhere, and is probably pretty much on its way out.

[LSF894]

I don't believe any system works entirely and I don't think any system is completely fair. Even though this is meant to be funny, I think it's a simple way of explaining each system.

 

SOCIALIST

-------------------

You have two cows.

The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.

You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow.

 

COMMUNIST

--------------------

You have two cows.

The government seizes both and provides you with milk.

You wait in line for hours to get it.

It is expensive and sour.

 

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE

--------------------

You have two cows.

You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

 

(http://www.political...w-analogy.html)

 

Which one's fairer? Socialism is trying to suit everyone's needs because "we're all equal." Communism just takes control of everything you own and your life. Might as well implant chips into you and control you that way. Capitalism allows you to work your way up to the top but, if you listen to some, at the expense of the people at the bottom.

 

The thing I don't understand about socialism is, if I've got this right, it seems to be the system where you don't have to work to earn your keep. I was reading something someone said. "The only way we can carry on is to eliminate the REQUIREMENT to work and change it to a DESIRE to work. The only answer for that is socialism." Is that really true?

 

Communism, as I've said just takes over people's lives. Your life is run by the government and, according to Marx, we're in a social development heading towards pure communism. No thank you...

 

Capitalism allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up to the top. Some people think this is unfair because everyone should have that opportunity but I think if you're not willing to work then why should you be allowed to get to the top? Why should people work all their lives to get to the top and you able to just get there without working a single day?

 

 

I think that your first part while meant to be a joke, did do a fairly good job at giving a somewhat over simplified description of the 3 governmental systems. But after that, I think your argument falls apart at least a little bit in your interpretations of both socialism and capitalism. I do not claim to be an expert on socialism, but

I'm not aware that it's underlying principal is that one not be required to work. I believe it is more a matter of everyone being given an equal opportunity from the very beginning. i.e. education, healthcare, employment opportunities, etc. Thus the opportunities are available for all from the very start. As far as capitalism is concerned, I have a little more experience since I live in the United States. I would not necessarily use the expression that it "allows" you to start at the bottom and work your way up. Although many have done just that quite successfully. Many have also started at the top, depending on the families into which they were born. They may or may not have worked a day in their lives. They are wealthy not necessarily from having worked hard all their lives, but rather from being born into the lap of luxury. There are also many, many more who, as you have so rightly stated, have worked very hard their entire lives, and are extremely far from wealthy, but are in fact living just at or in some cases below the poverty level. They did not "make it to the top" no matter how hard they worked or were willing to work. So, as it turns out, Capitalism is not quite as simple as it sounded in your brief description. As far as Communism is concerned, I think someone said it sounds good on paper, but it has never really worked anywhere, and is probably pretty much on its way out.

 

You can see how well communism has worked with how many times it's collapsed.

 

The being required to work thing was something someone else said, I didn't say it and didn't actually agree with it. As far as I can tell with socialism all it does it seems to destroy the class system to give the illusion of equality. I can kind of see where it's coming from, but for the people who've worked hard all their lives, is it fair for them to recieve the same amount as those who may not work as hard? I don't think it is.

 

Capitalism, I understand how others may live, but my point is how people CAN live. I could have more opportunities presented to me in a capitalist society than someone who's richer than me. I think it depends on your education. Success in life depends completely on education, but it depends on what you define as success. Being born into it, that's not success. That's luck. But for those who've gone through their education, done as well as they can and have come out of it well and got a good job they want out of it, I think that's success. I think more happiness can be found in capitalism myself as, I think, it actually presents MORE opportunities to you than the other systems, depending on your attitude to it. I mean you have to look at people like Bill Gates and Alan Sugar who've started off from nothing and have ended up right at the top. That just shows you what CAN happen in a capitalist society.

[Maxwell the Fool]

Origins of socialism:

 

Compromise between Capitalism and Communism. Marx said himself that socialism is merely a stepping stone, a gate along the pathway to the true way: Communism.

[TheDarkOne5667]

Well i have a full-proof argument.

 

Communism never existed. Socialism (such as the Union of soviet SOCIALIST republics) took place. and N.Korea definately is not Communist, but a dictatorship. China is a capitalist mess.

 

Capitalism can die, and will die, because it's not infinite. Communism is on the lives of people, Capitalism uses resources. People never go to waste over years, resources die out, so it is inevitable Capitalism cannot survive.