Help Wanted - Arms and Armor

[Ambaryerno]

Arms and Armor is a major modification of DragonAge: Origins that will be making sweeping changes to weapons, armor, and even to combat mechanics in some degrees with the goal of creating a more realistic experience to combat in DragonAge. Many of the concerns to be addressed include RPG tropes that, as a student of Western Martial Arts, piss me the @#$% off to see them CONTINUOUSLY reused because they're just outright wrong and have greatly contributed to the horrid misunderstanding of the Western tradition by the general public today (I'm looking at you, D&D :verymad: ).

 

The mod has now moved into the Alpha Testing stages, and v 0.15a has now been released to the Project Group. However there's still a LARGE number of areas that I'm needing assistance:

 

Testers

 

Testers will have access to all versions for testing purposes prior to public release to check for bugs and other gameplay issues. I'm looking for several people to make it easier to cover different points in the game, origins, character classes, and installed DLC. I'm looking for testing with the vanilla game with no other add-ons, as well as the different official DLC (Warden's Keep, Return to Ostagar, etc.) and the Expansion. Testing with other mods will also be useful. I expect there WILL be conflicts with other mods that affect the weaponry, but it's best to run it through the testing process anyway. Corrections and modifications will be made based on feedback from the testers prior to each public release.

 

Modelers

 

There's a LOT of model work that needs to be done still. In addition to the general overhaul of the weaponry, (particularly fixing the absurdly oversized weapons of the original game) ALL weapons will be receiving unique meshes. This means some weapon types may have as many as 10-12 or more models. Although I've done meshes for a number of weapons already, there's far too many for me to do them all myself. In addition to weapons, shields and, eventually, armor will also be redone. As a sub-set of this project I also want to rework the actual body meshes as well although the latter is of a lower priority.

 

Texture Artists

 

I need the most help here. The new meshes need to be textured. I can do it, but I'm primarily a modeler so I'm not the best with a graphics program. The meshes need to be UV-Mapped and diffuse, specular, and normal maps created for them. As a caveat: I love "dirt." There's certain models that just aren't right without prodigious layers of dirt, weathering, and general beaten up-ness. Swords are NOT one of them. It annoys me to no end that games are filled with swords that look like they've been buried in mud for a century. These were EXTREMELY expensive and valuable weapons, and quite simply a sword was NOT allowed to deteriorate to the degree so many textures would have you believe. They were sharpened, ground, polished and oiled regularly. I'm fine with weapons having a "used" look. I don't want to see ANY swords covered in rust and grime (ok, maybe the Darkspawn weaponry, but that's it).

 

Animators

 

New animations will be required for many of the new talents being created. Ideally I'd also like new animations in general, as some attack animations I find unsatisfying (like pretty much all the 2H sword attacks).

 

If you're interested and able to help, please contact me either through IM or in this thread with which job you are available to assist with. You can also contact me at the mod's Project Page at the Bioware site below:

 

Arms and Armor Project Page

[Ambaryerno]

In a shameless attempt to generate interest, a quick look at some of the new meshes.

 

http://social.bioware.com/uploads_project/project_gallery/1000/415/98/4038.jpg

 

The arming sword. The game's existing "longswords" are being recategorized into two new types: Arming Swords and Falchions. As part of this, the weapons are being DRASTICALLY rescaled as part of their redesign. This should be quite evident here, as the arming sword (replacing the "longsword" the human noble starts the game with) is both significantly shorter and much less massive than the "vanilla sword."

 

This image shows the difference more clearly:

 

http://social.bioware.com/uploads_project/project_gallery/1000/415/98/1034.jpg

 

The original Longsword 2 mesh, alongside the arming sword and longsword (2H) versions of the new Cousland Family Sword. For reference, the original Longsword 2 mesh scaled to approximately 40in!!! FAR too large to be effectively wielded one-handed. The arming sword variation seen here is slightly longer in blade and hilt than the sword shown above.

 

And speaking of the Cousland Family Sword....

 

http://social.bioware.com/uploads_project/project_gallery/1000/415/98/4018.jpg

 

The arming sword....

 

http://social.bioware.com/uploads_project/project_gallery/1000/415/98/4017.jpg

 

...and the longsword!

 

There are three variations of the Cousland Family Sword: Arming Sword, Longsword, and Greatsword. The player will have their choice between the three types when they access the Family Chest. However if the player already has the sword in inventory when activating the mod, it will automatically default to Arming Sword.

 

There's a LOT of work to be done yet, and while my textures are serviceable I could REALLY use a good artist.

[Opferous]

Very cool. Out of curiosity, what Oakeshott type did you use for the longsword? Blade shape looks kind of Type XVI but the long fuller looks closer to a XII. Can't wait to see how this project turns out. :smile:

[Ambaryerno]

I'm trying not to constrain myself to Oakeshott's typology, as this is a purely modern attempt to categorize the swords that their makers never intended, and the history of sword design is FAR more complex than what it really allows for. I AM using historical examples as the basis for some models, although in this case the design is more custom.

[jaysus]

I'm trying not to constrain myself to Oakeshott's typology, as this is a purely modern attempt to categorize the swords that their makers never intended, and the history of sword design is FAR more complex than what it really allows for. I AM using historical examples as the basis for some models, although in this case the design is more custom.

 

oakshott however is still one of the few good categorization of swords :P

doesnt matter that much tho for a mod at all, as i see it as noone actually cares if they are using tpe xii or type xiii if they aint sword afficiandos lol, the looks are all ;)

oakshott as i see it simply categorizes the swords by shape and model differences, not by dividing them into cavalry, saber, straight blade, 16th century or somin along those lines which would distinquisch between the use of each weapon and since it doesnt do that it can not go very wrong at all... however it doesnt really serve a purpose either but to categorize em somehow for easier dinstinquishability

anyway... type 12 ftw!!! :D

 

@your models

add some tear and wear to the swords, scratches, rust and so on... atm the textures simply look too clean imo

 

@my models

well i have no idea how to mod DAO at all so far lol... the cs of it kinda sucks as i see it, wants to download stuff from the internet and so on -.-

anyway if you like you could use the weapons of this oblivion mod for yours: JaySuS Blades Vol. 2

they are more or less oriented at real life swords with slight changes and should be easy to convert i assume, if there is need i could send you the models as fbx or whatever DAO needs too (they are textured and have normal maps, specular inside the normal maps)

would love to play my swords in DAO but for now im too busy to mess with the DAO annoyance of a CS...

[Ambaryerno]

Reread my original post. I can't stand the overdone chipping, rusting and general wear that shows up in fantasy game weapons, because quite simply IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

 

Your life DEPENDED on these swords and they were INCREDIBLY expensive to make. If there was a rust spot you cleaned it off. Chips would be ground out. The blades were constantly being cleaned and oiled to prevent such buildup. I would NEVER allow my own practice sword to get into the condition a lot of swords look like in games, and it's "just" a blunted steel sword for drill.

 

The swords are staying clean.

[jaysus]

Reread my original post. I can't stand the overdone chipping, rusting and general wear that shows up in fantasy game weapons, because quite simply IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

 

Your life DEPENDED on these swords and they were INCREDIBLY expensive to make. If there was a rust spot you cleaned it off. Chips would be ground out. The blades were constantly being cleaned and oiled to prevent such buildup. I would NEVER allow my own practice sword to get into the condition a lot of swords look like in games, and it's "just" a blunted steel sword for drill.

 

The swords are staying clean.

 

thats probably true for the more expensive types of weapons ;)

however most swords were simply mass produced since roman times and since they were used in battle they tended to get scratches, chips and so on but were still being used until they really broke since they still were kinda expensive

just go to a museum and look at all those old swords which were not dug up from the mud or found in a lake rusting there for aeons, still they show their age most of the time

now take in count that some swords before the invention of steel where folded or twisted to get homogenous steel, these swords were extremely expensive and more durable, however they also were in use over generations and handed down from one to the next of kin, imagine 300 yrs of battle and fight, i doubt itll still look as sexy as on the day you bought it.

 

mind that these weapons were usually hand made and hence never as perfect as a cad tool like blender either

 

also mind that every time you polish a sword you weaken it, those katanas of old for example were much thicker in their original form but were polished again and again till they became as thin as paper, now most of them would be useless against a mongol armor suit...

 

furthermore would i like a system which shows the degredation of the weapons over the time of use, weapons you find in some ruin should look aged until you bring em to a swordsmith for refitting and get uglier again the more you kill

 

hence my conclusion is that as long as there is no real degredation system in place in a game one should prolly add some aging or at least a texture at all and not just color ;), it simply looks more interesting

 

anyway, any opinion on the swords i linked you to? wanna use em?

[Ambaryerno]

Actually, no, swords were not mass-produced since Roman times. Certainly not in the West. In Western Europe after the Empire fell swords became PROHIBITIVELY expensive and only your wealthiest professional warriors and nobles carried them. Your main weapons became the axe and spear because that's what could be had cheaply, quickly, and easily. It wasn't until very late in the medieval period that swords became more widely available. The notion of a sword in the hand of every man at arms is strictly fantasy and Hollywood.

 

I'm saving the cruder look for weapons that WOULD have been cruder, particularly axes.

 

As for your swords, they look great, but most of the swords have actually already been modelled (I missed the Keening Blade and I know there's new swords in some of the DLC) or I already have plans for (actually, only the Greatswords and Falchions have yet to be modeled). They just need textures (and for the swords, I'm looking for clean, well cared-for weapons kept in tip-top fighting shape). It's the remaining weapons (daggers, axes, maces, hammers) that I'm needing most.

[jaysus]

not all swords were mass produced thats true, however the roman army truly did it... ortherwise theyd never been able to sustain such a force in which every soldier carried a gladius, there are even documents left over from that time which detail the whole process including bills and all that fun, heck even before them the babylonians did it too... thats why we have a bloody desert in iraq as they chopped down whole forests to get enough firewood for their furnaces, they didnt just make forks and spoons out of it :P

 

only very few swords were actually of good quality as i mentioned earlier, some however where made by master swordsmithes and are pieces of art and technology

 

the reason axes etc were cheaper was due to the less technical knowledge you need to create those, you dont need to have pure steel, you dont need to forge two sorts of steel together and so on, however you can create swords in the same cheap way but they will be crap mostly... most swords were crap though, ever heard of celts rebending their swords during battle?

 

see the differenc between a cheap and an expensive sword is the way the iron was treated and if it became steel this way, good swords were rare because we didnt have good clean iron sources and had to fold/twist the steel which takes ages, in the late medieval times we finally were able to create homogenous steel in large quantities and hence were able to mass produce good quality stuff

the romans however as an example also did exactly that, they made the celts dig up good iron in the alps, had massive steel factories and were able to mass produce a good quality steel which they used for their military obviously

 

good swords were rare, crappy ones were plenty...

 

hence i dont quite get why you want all swords to be in pristine conditions when most of them have been in use for some time or lay round on some forest floors where they rotted in silence, even if everyone in DAO would polish his sword daily and look after it carefully the hilts would still become quite nasty

[Ambaryerno]

Back on topic:

 

If there's any modelers or especially texture artists out there who can work within the design aesthetic of the mod your assistance will be greatly appreciated.