Why everyone thinks that the Empire is bad?

[Lachdonin]

This conversation got weird. Please keep this about Skyrim.

.

You need to bring in contextual information to make evaluations about just about anything. It is functionally impossible to have a thoughtful discussion about anything without drawing referances from outside for context.

[Khorak]

People 'hate' the Empire because it has turned rubbish. We got dumped into Skyrim 200 years after Oblivion, and the story is basically one of the Empire collapsing into decay and ruin. It's finally finished off by the Thalmor, whose strategic planning was so insultingly obvious that only an utterly blind and stupid Empire could ever have failed to notice what was going on, and have failed so pathetically to prepare for it. The Thalmor were openly hostile from their very inception, militarily taking Valenwood, and the Empire just let them have it instead of walking over there and kicking their face in.

 

Lets start adding some comparison here: The Roman Empire that the Cyrodiilic Empire is so often aesthetically modelled on. The Roman Empire had Hannibal walking around the Italian mainland for FIFTEEN YEARS beating the crap out of everything he could find and sustaining himself by burning and pillaging...they just shrugged and took it while they kicked a new butthole in the rest of the Carthaginians. Now, the actual statistics of the second Punic War are not pretty reading, since Rome literally sustained the same sort of horrific demographic catastrophe as the main combatants of World War I (no-one was allowed to cry about their loss either, because everyone had lost so much). They did this just eleven years after the Pyrrhic War. Oh and once they were done with the second Punic War, they barrelled into Illyria about 12 years later.

 

The Empire had thirty years to recover from the Oblivion Crisis, and they appear to have utterly failed to do so in any way, which cannot be explained away by waving your hand at some internal political problems. Rome had vastly more epic 'problems', usually civil wars, and just kept going. If you'd have given Rome thirty years to work with after the Oblivion Crisis, they'd have been stamping angrily on the faces of Elsweyr and Black Marsh by 4E 15, cutting down most of Valenwood as a spiteful punitive measure for attempted succession in 4E 29, and using the wood in the preparations to invade Alinor. Which they would likely have ploughed into the ground for being a perpetual problem after they were done.

 

Instead, the Cyrodiilic 'Empire' lets everything go, sits around with its thumb up its butt for almost two hundred years, and somehow gets 'outflanked' by an openly hostile rival via territory the Empire knows has been in the hands of the Thalmor for over half a century. Then, when they finally manage to look vaguely like the Empire we've all been shepherding through so many games and completely flatten almost the entire Thalmor army.....they give up, agree to losing terms despite having just won, then watch the Thalmor completely fail to conquer Hammerfell for five years.

 

It's hardly difficult to see why people would be siding with the Stormcloaks. We're not exactly living in Skyrim and making the choice here, narratively it's easy to go with the guys who display actual passion and intent when it comes to taking down the Designated Bad Guys, because that tends to be what gamesplayers want to do, as opposed to the Empire which pretty much every shred of in-game lore you can get displays to be rubbish and on the way out.

 

In reality, the storytelling is just....garbage. Horrible, horrible garbage. On one hand, extraordinarily poor worldbuilding turns Skyrim into some sort of frozen wasteland, so you can't ever manage to properly invest yourself in the idea that siding with the Stormcloaks, and accepting all their faults, will result in a horde of seriously angry, Anglo-Saxon inspired, heavily armoured death machines pouring out of what is supposedly an incredibly prosperous province that has, multiple times, single-handedly forged entire empires, and piling into the Thalmor like the mighty fist of Talos himself.

 

And for the Empire, the extraordinarily poor worldbuilding results in the aforementioned, hilariously unbelievable backstory of the past two hundred years, with no indication they'll get better because that's exactly what they've failed to do for centuries....oh, and they tried to cut your ****ing head off for being in the general vicinity of Ulfric Stormcloak. Do we get Hadvar strongly objecting on our behalf so we can feel more justified in going back to these tools? Nope. Do we get anything but a mumbled line out of Tullius about it? Nope. Do we get the Stormcloaks giving us hilarious titles like 'Bonebreaker'? Hahaha! Yeah we do!

 

The initial choice of who players go with is likely going to be made in whoever they choose to escape with in Helgen. And why would you choose Crapvar over Brolof?

Edited September 11, 2014 by Khorak

[Lachdonin]

You're wrong about several points...

 

First, the Empire did not know about the movements, mobilization or army strength of the Dominion prior to the Great War. We know for a fact all of their Blades agents were killed, and conversations in The Infernal City/Lord of Souls indicate that the Dominion has been absurdly on the ball in terms of misdirection and counter espionage since day one. Yes, Mede probably knew the moment the Dominion envoy made his demands that refusing meant war, but he A; Could not accept those demands without at least putting up a fight, and B; would have had no knowlege of the Dominion's strength. In fact, the simple fact the Emperor did not know all the Blades Agents were already dead, despite the fact we know that the Blades and the Penitus Oculatus commonly use magical communication, indicates a campaign of misdirection on the part of the Dominion. They had THEIR agents pretend to be the Empire's agents and feed false information into Cyrodiil. Knowing you have a hostile nation next door is different than knowing they have their army ready to invade you at a drop of a hat.

 

Second, your claim that the Empire has done nothing to recover is also false. We know the infrastructure of Cyrodiil was totally destroyed following the Great War, which is why they couldn't continue the fight (armies need to eat). At the same time, in Skyrim, we are told that Skyrim is largely dependant on the food supplies from Cyrodiil, indicating the infrastructure has been rebuilt. Tulius also complains about not having proper legionaries, because they are all sitting on the Dominion's border. Both these facts indicate that the Empire HAS rebuilt, and is in fact preparing for war (further supported by Tullius' statements at the end of the Imperial Civil War quest. It's actually rather impressive that they've accomplished this in only 30 years, when you consider that the build up to WWI took place over a similar period, and had the advantage of industrialization.

 

Third, you are misrepresenting scale. Cyrodiil alone is almost as big as the Roman Empire at its height, and has suffered from several Counts trying to succeed in the turmoil following the Great War. The massive area, catastrophic losses, and need to deal with internal problems make it increasingly impressive, while at the same time dealing with the oppressive terms of the White-Gold Concordant make it doubly impressive that the Empire has recovered as much as it has.

 

Fourth, the Empire did not win. No one 'Won' the Great War. The Dominion lost almost the entirety of their military, and the Empire's infrastructure was obliterated. Neither side held much hope of continuing the fight (aside from the Alinor navy, which we have no mention of and is more powerful than any other navy on the continent, but never seems to actually leave Summerset these days...). When Hammerfell succeeded, the Dominion hoped to capitalise on their lack of military and use what little military remained to take the province. The fact that Hammerfell managed to hold against what remained of the Dominion is actually rather pathetic considering when the Ra'Gada first came to Tamriel, they conquered the entire province in a few short years, while being refugees with a far more limited population, no fortifications and no knowledge of the land. Even in their 'victory' we are told the southern kingdoms of Hammerfell are in ruins, and these have historically been the most populated regions, meaning, again, no one really won.

 

Finally, and this cannot be said enough... Tiber Septim himself couldn't conquer the Dominion, and that was BEFORE the cosmic psychopaths of the Thalmor were in charge (along with their Tower-Lore and Dawn-Magics). He required a literal, freaking god-weapon, a crime against nature, powered by the souls of his two closets advisors, before he dared attack them. Faulting a mortal Emperor, without the backing of the Numidium, for not conquering the Dominion for 200 years, is just silly.

[Khorak]

 

First, the Empire did not know about the movements, mobilization or army strength of the Dominion prior to the Great War.

Clearly the Empire was commanded by you, because apparently you share with them the complete failure to grasp very, very basic strategy. You know, that nonsense where you can quite reasonably determine enemy plans and movements; the Empire had absolutely no excuse whatsoever to be caught blindsided by an attack through Elsweyr. This was not Germans piling through Belgium, this was Thalmor piling through Thalmor territory. The Empire was maintaining fortifications with the laughably glaring hole of having nothing to prevent an attack via Elsweyr. This is not megligence, it is incompetence of the highest order.

 

We know for a fact all of their Blades agents were killed, and conversations in

The Infernal City/Lord of Souls indicate that the Dominion has been absurdly on the ball in terms of misdirection and counter espionage since day one.

The manner in which the Thalmor eventually conducted the war was idiotically obvious, and had nothing whatsoever to do with covert operations. The Empire sat next to an openly antagonistic rival which had already annexed its territory, and yet sat there like a lemon with gigantic, obvious holes in its defences for the better part of a century.

 

Yes, Mede probably knew the moment the Dominion envoy made his demands that refusing meant war, but he A; Could not accept those demands without at least putting up a fight, and B; would have had no knowlege of the Dominion's strength.

Not knowing the Dominion's strength is absolutely no excuse at all for the colossal failures that actually mattered during the Great War. Your argument here is completely bankrupt of relevance. Just because I don't know how strong a man is doesn't mean I have an excuse for not having my guard up on my left when he finally punches me on the left side of my face. I don't need an intelligence report in order to realise that I have a vast border that is completely undefended and allows direct access TO MY CAPITAL. Also of note is that the forces placed in Hammerfell were also 'disunited', another negligent failure during a cold war scenario.

 

In fact, the simple fact the Emperor did not know all the Blades Agents were already dead, despite the fact we know that the Blades and the Penitus Oculatus commonly use magical communication, indicates a campaign of misdirection on the part of the Dominion. They had THEIR agents pretend to be the Empire's agents and feed false information into Cyrodiil. Knowing you have a hostile nation next door is different than knowing they have their army ready to invade you at a drop of a hat.

Absolutely none of which actually excuses the failings that actually mattered during the Great War. The direct attack on Hammerfell was stopped, while the attack on Cyrodiil succeeded only because the Empire was mind bogglingly negligent in allowing easy access across their southern border, and it was far weaker than the Thalmor themselves had estimated. You're very, very happy to try banging the drum of Thalmor espionage superiority even though it simply isn't the slightest bit relevant to the argument; as it turns out, the Thalmor, who had all the information, were surprised the Empire was so weak. So yes, the Empire HAS been pathetically negligent. They have a hostile enemy on their borders, and when the time came that enemy was somewhat surprised and confused by the fact that their own estimations of how powerful the Empire SHOULD be are false....it was weaker.

 

Second, your claim that the Empire has done nothing to recover is also false.

No it ain't. It's had twenty years. I have an exceptionally low estimation of your mental capacity if you can't grasp just how long that is. Again, the ROman Empire had mainland Italy burnt to the ground non-stop by Hannibal for fifteen years, defeated a peer opponent while this was happening, and in half the time Cyrodiil had to recover, it was off invading someone else.

Twenty years is a VERY LONG TIME.

 

We know the infrastructure of Cyrodiil was totally destroyed following the Great War, which is why they couldn't continue the fight (armies need to eat).

First, no it wasn't. There is still half of Cyrodiil behind the Imperial City which remains untouched. Also, Skyrim remains untouched, along with High Rock. Half of Cyrodiil was occupied, while the deserty south of Hammerfell was occupied.

Romans, Hannibal, fifteen years burning everything, yada yada....

LRN 2 LOGISTICS.

 

At the same time, in Skyrim, we are told that Skyrim is largely dependant on the food supplies from Cyrodiil, indicating the infrastructure has been rebuilt.

Yeah? And? Even if that's true, because at this point I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. Which is likely pretty far, but not that far. So before anything, where is that?

 

Tulius also complains about not having proper legionaries, because they are all sitting on the Dominion's border. Both these facts indicate that the Empire HAS rebuilt, and is in fact preparing for war (further supported by Tullius' statements at the end of the Imperial Civil War quest. It's actually rather impressive that they've accomplished this in only 30 years, when you consider that the build up to WWI took place over a similar period, and had the advantage of industrialization.

It's not impressive in the slightest. Seriously, I've got the entire history of the Roman Empire backing me up. I've got the Thirty Years War. The Hundred Years War. History is replete with examples, it's ridiculous.

You truly have just no concept at all of how long thirty years is when you're as 'simple' as a classical to medieval society.

 

Third, you are misrepresenting scale. Cyrodiil alone is almost as big as the Roman Empire at its height

All of Tamriel is twelve million square kilometers by two given sources. Cyrodiil being 162300 by another. The Roman Empire reached 4.4 million square kilometers. Basically, you're a liar on all counts.

Also, you're still a strategic idiot. The shape of Cyrodill makes it hilariously defensible against Valenwood and Elsweyr, due to having a vastly smaller land border than would be expected, with a huge amount of space to retreat through whilst pivoting back around the Imperial City, forcing an enemy to chase you across a large frontier while their supply line gets shafted, or attack the Imperial City with an unsecured flank. Or split themselves trying to do both. You're laughing, basically.

 

and has suffered from several Counts trying to succeed in the turmoil following the Great War. The massive area, catastrophic losses, and need to deal with internal problems make it increasingly impressive, while at the same time dealing with the oppressive terms of the White-Gold Concordant make it doubly impressive that the Empire has recovered as much as it has.

No, it isn't. In comparison to actual historical states, it's pathetic. Plus you've also ludicrously misrepresented the area, are under the frankly idiotic impression that having access to large, productive areas is somehow a disadvantage to recovery (seriously, this is the most stupid assertion I've heard in a long time), don't actually have any numbers of the losses sustained, but which have been historically sustained by states that then came back in far better fashion than the Cyrodiilic Empire, one example of which is the freaking Thirty Years War, which makes the Great War in Tamriel, and the terms of peace, look like a ****ing tea party. Half the male population of the entirety of Germany was dead by the end, and the Empire was still able to help put the boot into the Turks about 20 years later.

 

Fourth, the Empire did not win.

This is going to be absurd, isn't it.

 

No one 'Won' the Great War.

Like, physical pain absurd.

 

The Dominion lost almost the entirety of their military

So in the moronic world of Lachdonin, the guys whose military was completely wiped out in a single battle are the winners.

 

and the Empire's infrastructure was obliterated.

No, half of Cyrodill was burnt down. Meanwhile, Skyrim, High Rock, and the northern half of Hammerfell are wondering what the **** the problem is.

 

Neither side held much hope of continuing the fight.

We're back to the Strategic Genius of Lachdonin again, where the guys who have an army left and an Empire to both supply and reinforce it can't hope to continue the fight against the guys who just had Cannae happen all over their face while they're still pinned in place on the Hammerfell front.

Seriously. You suck at Europa Universalis, don't you.

 

When Hammerfell succeeded, the Dominion hoped to capitalise on their lack of military and use what little military remained to take the province. The fact that Hammerfell managed to hold against what remained of the Dominion is actually rather pathetic considering when the Ra'Gada first came to Tamriel, they conquered the entire province in a few short years, while being refugees with a far more limited population, no fortifications and no knowledge of the land. Even in their 'victory' we are told the southern kingdoms of Hammerfell are in ruins, and these have historically been the most populated regions, meaning, again, no one really won.

Are you SERIOUSLY using the 'logic' that Hammerfell singlehandedly holding off the entire Aldmeri Dominion for five years and actually defeating it somehow supports you?

Hammerfell alone defeated the Aldmeri Dominion after the catastrophic defeat the latter suffered at the Red Ring. Alone. Had the Empire struck back, there would have been absolutely nothing the Dominion could do about it.

The Empire outright won because the Aldmeri Dominion made an immense strategic blunder of its own and got Cannae for it, and the Redguard proved it for five years.

 

Finally, and this cannot be said enough... Tiber Septim himself couldn't conquer the Dominion, and that was BEFORE the cosmic psychopaths of the Thalmor were in charge (along with their Tower-Lore and Dawn-Magics). He required a literal, freaking god-weapon, a crime against nature, powered by the souls of his two closets advisors, before he dared attack them. Faulting a mortal Emperor, without the backing of the Numidium, for not conquering the Dominion for 200 years, is just silly.

Well it's nice to know that you're going to end this on more lies. He conquered everything except Valenwood, with his final conquest being Morrowind. Vivec apparently knew he ultimately couldn't stop a figure of destiny and so negotiated now for better terms than being conquered, and handed over the Numidium. The Septim Empire was already having successful skirmishes with the Bosmer, but he was leery of invading Valenwood because it'd be ugly having to go into the depths of the place, and the Summerset Isles continued to have a superior navy. So he unleashed Numidium.

In the end, the Aldmeri Dominion could do absolutely nothing whatsoever to defeat him, though with the entirety of Tamriel under his command, only Lochdanin Strategy would result in an inability to take a long term position of building up to steamroll it. He suddenly had Numidium though, so splat.

Despite your utterly unsupported and utterly dishonest attempt to portray otherwise, the Thalmor are quantifiably not as powerful as their forebears. They continue to be unable to do squat to the Psijic Order, and continue to be perfectly killable in combat. The only thing that saved the previous Dominion was maintaining naval control....unsurprising that an island province would take a British stance. Had the Empire not been so utterly pathetic, they could quite happily have completely and utterly crushed the plans of the Aldmeri Dominion even in their previously unprepared, weak state thanks to the miracle of the Red Ring, but they didn't. They annihilated the Dominion forces, and could have effortlessly then moved to encircle the forces in Hammerfell and squashed them too, leaving the Empire with total supremacy and a position of strength.

They rolled over.

[TheVampireDante]

Khorak - if you cannot continue to discuss this topic without resorting to personal insults, then you will be issued a warning and removed from posting for a suitable duration.

 

Keep it civil.

[Lachdonin]

Alrighty, had to wait till i had a computer for this one.. no way i was typing this on a phone...

 

First, the easy one. Tiber Septim's conquest of Tamriel.

 

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/rise-tiber-septim

 

It is not entirely clear which was conquered first, Elsweyr or Morrowind, but the two happened in very quick succession. Following the conquest of Morrowind, and the treaty with Vivec, Septim was given the Numidium, which he moved to newly annexed Rimmen and activated it, with the new Mantela, for the first time. At this point he had engaged in, at best, a few minor skirmished in Valenwood. In fact, there is no evidence of him every actually invading Valenwood, and it's possible he skipped it entirely and went straight for Summerset, forcing their surrender during the Siege of Alinor and conquering Valenwood by proxy.

 

Second, the Redguard. The most gifted warriors in all of Tamriel, relying on discharged Legionaries, fought a beaten enemy to a standstill for 5 years, as opposed to just driving them out entirely. These are the same people who forced Tiber Septim to capitulate to a treaty following the rebellion of Cyrus the Restless, and who conquered all of Hammerfell from the Altmer, Orcs and Nedes who lived there in a few short years, as a refugee population. The inability of the Redguard to soundly win against the Dominion, in their OWN LANDS, and to have their most densely populated southern regions decimated, indicates either that the Redguard are incompetent, or that the Dominion was not so soundly beaten as you indicate. In fact, Kematu's reference to a resistance indicates that some kind of diplomatic presence remains of the Dominion within Hammerfell.

 

The initial attack on Hammerfell was also NOT stopped, at least not by military action. Lady Arannelya's defeat would have been due more to her crossing of the desert, limited supply lines (the Alik'r desert is notoriously difficult to cross) and diminished forces from the consolidation of the southern coast. And even then, it was a protracted, almost year-long campaign. Against an unsupplied, cornered, already exhausted enemy. Nor does it seem that the Redguard were able to dislodge the Dominion from their captured holdings, or launch any sort of counter into Dominion lands, rendering any claims that the 5 year conflict in Hammerfell is evidence the Empire could have won baseless. The Redguard won nothing, and showed only that the Dominion still had substantial fight in it for a supposedly 'vanquished' foe.

 

Third, the Empire had no reason to beleive the Dominion was hostile. Not once, in 200 years, had they attempted to annex any Imperial territories, and all known attempts at espionage were on the part of the Mede's, NOT the Dominion. This would be like Canada suddenly declaring war on the USA. In fact, there was more of a precedence for hostilities with Blackmarsh, since they had on at least 3 occasions attacked Imperial holdings. Keeping an eye on another power, simply because it exists, is one thing, and was clearly part of the tactic of the Empire, but maintaining constantly military vigil against a neighbour who has not, in 200 years, made any move against you is something else altogether.

 

Furthermore, the dispersed nature of the Legions at the onset of the war indicates that Mede was preoccupied with other internal issues. We know there was a presence in Morrowind directed towards an attempt to rebuild, another in Highrock assisting the reconstruction of Orsimer, and that an ongoing civil war in Hammerfell which required a large number of the Empire's forces. The presence of these factors, and the fact that, again, the Dominion had NEVER moved against them, make the lack of defence along the Valenwood-Elsweyr borders understandable (if, in hindsight, a bad idea). Combined with the very clear misinformation being fed into the Empire by the Thalmor, who had long since compromised the Empires intelligence agencies, your attacks about strategy are rendered invalid. The Empire had internal concerns, no reason to expect and attack, and was being fed information which conveyed a contrary image to what was actually happening.

 

Fourth, the almost laughably poor Hannibal comparison... Did Hannibal manage to rampage across north and central Italy for 15 years? Yes. Did he do so by pillage? Maybe. This is actually an ongoing debate amongst archaeologists and historians. Murphy and (i'm going to spell this poor guys name wrong...) Zelinatz (?) have both raised concerns about the typical history of the second Punic War, due to reconstructive Archaeology findings in regards to crop yields, about the ability to consistently feed an army of approximately 25000 men (and at least 5000 horses) on top of the local population, with Murphy in particular indicating that Hannibal likely received regular supplies from Gaul and Iberia, along with seasonally shifting numbers of reinforcements. Zelinatz has also questioned the fact that Hannibal seemed unable to replace his lost siege engines, despite having ample opportunity and resources in Italy, and the field-construction of siege equipment was a common practice amongst contemporary armies on protracted campaign.

 

Hannibal's success is also increasingly attributed not to his own genius, but rather to the incompetence of the Roman Republic's appointed generals. Fabius was a far superior strategist who understood the value of the long game, and would have seen Hannibal defeated were it not for democracy getting in the way of good strategy. Hannibal's reliance on plunder (to feed his troops, but also to placate his Gaulic allies) was another indication of Hannibal's inability to formulate strategic plans. He needed Rome's allies to abandon it, but instead turned them against himself by despoiling their lands. He may have been a masterful tactician, but a strategist he was not...

 

He was also fighting mostly conscripted forces of poorly trained recruits, while the core of the Roman armies fought in Hispania, Sicily and Greece, where they in all three cases prevailed (though Hispania was a bit of a fight). While it was rather impressive that Rome was able to build so many armies, so quickly, the quality of these men were sorely lacking against the veteran and hardened forces of Hannibal.

 

Anyway, even if we assume that Hannibal was the god of war you seem to paint him as, he still has no bearing on the argument. Why?

 

A; Hannibal's reliance on local supply an pillage would have required him to cause as little infrastructure damage as possible, to ensure that he had a renewable supply of provisions for his army. His back and forth campaign across Italy supports this, requiring him to pillage the same areas multiple times over a few years. Thus, he could not adopt the same strategy that was used against Carthage during the 3rd Punic war, which was the total and utter eradication of the city an the salting of the earth. Now, the Dominion had no such concerns, and maintained strong supply lines to its armies. We also know, from sources since, that the goal of the Dominion is neither conquest nor occupation, but eradication, and we are told that many 'atrocities' were committed against the people of Cyrodiil. Similarly, we know the devastating effects of magical contamination, evidenced in places like Sancre Tor and Doomcraig, something well within the power of the Dominion. Because they had no reliance on the land, and we know they tortured and despoiled the region during their occupation, it is a safe assumption they would do more than simply burn crops, making the post-war landscape far different than what Rome was contending with after the Second Punic War.

 

B; Hannibal's success without strong supply lines was only made possible by the lush agricultural land of Italy, which had been worked for at least 2000 years. If the Empire were to invade the Dominion, they would have had no such access. Elsweyr is a land so hostile one of the core principles of the Khajiiti world-view is their constant war against Niri, and lacks much in the way of large-scale agriculture. Valenwood, on the other hand, is a JUNGLE, an area typically only useful for slash-and-burn agriculture with low fertility. Plus, the Green Pact prohibits the use of plant products grown in Valenwood, so the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't even understand how agriculture works. Both these points make it impossible to properly feed an army using Hannibal's tactic. Far more likely, the lack of viable pillage, and no means of supply from home, would have resulted more like Napoleon's invasion of Russia. Even, then, when Rome finally renewed Fabian's strategy, Hannibal found it increasingly difficult to supply his troops, showing again, that it was Roman incompetence that allowed the war to drag on for so long, not some innate ability for armies to operate in hostile lands for more than a decade.

 

Fifth, claiming that the largely untouched Nibenay was more than enough to supply not only the remainder of Cyrodiil, but a foreign invasion, is ignoring the fact that it was the Nibenese who revolted against the Empire following the war. Mede had to ensure those resources were available for a war-weary people to rebuild, and never would have been able to convince the Nybenese Counties to commit them to a continued war effort.

 

You also seem to grossly underestimate the time it takes to recover from a war of this scale. Even with your smaller world (which is contradicted by newer resources compiled with input from Kirkbride and Kurt rather than entirely in-game sources) the war ravaged an area similar to that of World War I. Even with industrialization, it it took more than 20 years to recover (though admittedly the Depression probably didn't help). 30 years may seem like a long time, but the area, scale and toll of the war is unlike anything which ever occurred historically, even without considering the use of Magic, and the Empire has the disadvantage of knowing that no one so much as spat on any of the Dominion holdings. They have no intelligence about their enemy, no knowledge of their remaining forces, have had to contend with at LEAST 2 revolts in Cyrodiil and now a civil war in Skyrim, and are facing against people who BROKE THE LUNAR LATTICE. The power of the Dominion, and their Thalmor masters, cannot be overstated, when they can remove one of the fundamental components of Mundus, just to see if the Khajiit turn back into Altmer.

 

 

 

And for the record, it's Sybille Stentor is the one who says Cyrodiil's food and supplies are important to Skyrim.