fraquar Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) The wording on the Imperial Missive is the proof that Thorald was an Imperial prisoner: "It is my duty to inform you that Thalmor agents have taken possession of the prisoner and have escorted him to Northwatch Keep." The Thalmor didn't capture him, he was handed over to them. What isn't clear is how he became an Imperial prisoner, or why they handed him over to the Thalmor. From my understanding he wasn't a Stormcloak, but joined them after his release. Even then, the fact that he was a Stormcloak would be no reason for the Thalmor to have him handed over to them. Edited August 24, 2014 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmyhome Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 English is not my mother tongue, but the "have taken possession" part doesn't sound like they handed him over willingly, does it? More like a "gun to the head" situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Reason they handed him over is up in the air, but usually when that happens the people taking possession have a higher jurisdiction. i.e. a U.S. Marshall coming to a city and taking possession of a prisoner. That's what bothers me here, how is the Empire allowing the Thalmor to have higher jurisdiction with ANY Imperial citizen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Reason they handed him over is up in the air, but usually when that happens the people taking possession have a higher jurisdiction. i.e. a U.S. Marshall coming to a city and taking possession of a prisoner. That's what bothers me here, how is the Empire allowing the Thalmor to have higher jurisdiction with ANY Imperial citizen? The same reason the RCMP have the jurisdiction to arrest dual citizenship individuals for crimes committed in Canada. The same reason any criminal can be extricated for punishment by foreign powers for crimes committed. Treaties. The Dominion has jurisdiction over individuals who violate the White Gold Concordant, particularly in reference to Talos Worshippers. It's rather clear that not even the representatives of the Empire are particularly fond of the arrangement, and Mede even seems to regret the current state of affairs, but the treaty is upheld to slow the onset of another war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) We are talking about handing over an Imperial prisoner to the enemy, which again, the reason for his being an Imperial prisoner isn't clear, on that Empires home soil. We don't know why he was willingly handed over to them. The bottom line is he was, and was on Imperial soil when he was. It makes no sense. The only thing that might make any sense would be if he was originally a Thalmor prisoner, escaped, was detained by the Empire and willingly handed back to them. Even then, treaty or not I wouldn't be making it easy for the Thalmor. i.e.Thalmor: We are looking for an escaped fugitive, have you seen him?Empire: Nope, we'll let you know if we do though. :smile: Told you those Nords were a pain in the ass...... Edited August 25, 2014 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetTheJojDone Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 We are talking about handing over an Imperial prisoner to the enemy, which again, the reason for his being an Imperial prisoner isn't clear, on that Empires home soil. We don't know why he was willingly handed over to them. The bottom line is he was, and was on Imperial soil when he was. It makes no sense. The only thing that might make any sense would be if he was originally a Thalmor prisoner, escaped, was detained by the Empire and willingly handed back to them. Even then, treaty or not I wouldn't be making it easy for the Thalmor. i.e.Thalmor: We are looking for an escaped fugitive, have you seen him?Empire: Nope, we'll let you know if we do though. :smile: Told you those Nords were a pain in the ass...... Thing is, the Dominion's leaders clearly aren't stupid, certainly not THAT stupid, and I sincerely doubt any minor act of defiance like that could possibly be worth the repercussions it'd have. I'm sure the Dominion wouldn't hesitate to extrapolate the Empire's deliberate hampering of their efforts into a cause for war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Thing is, the Dominion's leaders clearly aren't stupid, certainly not THAT stupid, and I sincerely doubt any minor act of defiance like that could possibly be worth the repercussions it'd have. I'm sure the Dominion wouldn't hesitate to extrapolate the Empire's deliberate hampering of their efforts into a cause for war. Even then, we know that Talos worshippers are under their jurisdiction, but Tullius clearly decides to execute Ulfric rather than handing him over. They also don't seem to go out of their way to arrest and turn over Talos worshippers to the Thalmor, or really keep them appraised of anything... I wouldn't exactly say they're making things easy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Whether they are that stupid or not, that's no reason for the Empire to make their job of torturing Imperial citizens easier. Enforcing a treaty or not, they are still supposed to be guests of the Empire in Skyrim, not loose cannons or even worse being able to make demands on the Empire at will (which the Empire gladly capitulate to). Edited August 25, 2014 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) If I were Emperor (or even the King of Skyrim) and I caught wind of exactly what happened at Shrine of Talos outside Riverwood, the Thalmor would be run out of Imperial territories ON A RAIL - treaty or no treaty. No treaty should give carte-blance to slaughtering my citizens. Edited August 25, 2014 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Whether they are that stupid or not, that's no reason for the Empire to make their job of torturing Imperial citizens easier. Enforcing a treaty or not, they are still supposed to be guests of the Empire in Skyrim, not loose cannons or even worse being able to make demands on the Empire at will (which the Empire gladly capitulate to). This last part is totally false. There isn't a single Imperial official in Skyrim who is not begrudgingly accepting of the Thalmor presence, at their most amicable. Some, like Tullius, make it rather clear that they are barely tolerated pests and that as soon as an order is given they will be driven out or put to the sword. I think it's also inappropriate to think the Thalmor is going around massacring people in the streets. There is a reason their operatives try to COVERTLY assassinate the Dragonborn, rather than just sending Justicars to gut him in Solitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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