Why everyone thinks that the Empire is bad?

[fraquar]

Gladly capitulate is not false, because they know EXACTLY what goes on at Northwatch Keep. Imperial citizens aren't going there for a picnic......

[Lachdonin]

Yes, it is false. The anti-Thalmor attitudes that permeate every single Imperial mention of them throughout Skyrim is evidence of that. Most US personnel aren't particularly happy about sending people to Guantanamo, but that doesn't mean they get to refuse. The Empire hates the Dominion, they only cooperate to the bare minimum the Concordant requires them do, and they don't even seem overly enthusiastic about that.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Lachdonin

[MidbossVyers]

 

Whether they are that stupid or not, that's no reason for the Empire to make their job of torturing Imperial citizens easier. Enforcing a treaty or not, they are still supposed to be guests of the Empire in Skyrim, not loose cannons or even worse being able to make demands on the Empire at will (which the Empire gladly capitulate to).

 

This last part is totally false. There isn't a single Imperial official in Skyrim who is not begrudgingly accepting of the Thalmor presence, at their most amicable. Some, like Tullius, make it rather clear that they are barely tolerated pests and that as soon as an order is given they will be driven out or put to the sword.

 

I think it's also inappropriate to think the Thalmor is going around massacring people in the streets. There is a reason their operatives try to COVERTLY assassinate the Dragonborn, rather than just sending Justicars to gut him in Solitude.

 

Well, a certain Thalmor agent http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Shavari does try to kill you in the middle of the streets. Fails hilariously, but tries.

[Lachdonin]

True, but this happens in Riften. A city where even the guards try to shake you down, and where you are openly threatened in the streets. Its a shady city to begin with. It's not likely the Thalmor would try something like that in any other Hold capital.

[fraquar]

Guantanamo? That's not "Imperial soil" to the U.S., or to the people that are sent there. The Empire is handing over prisoners on Imperial soil to the enemy. Treaty or not that makes ZERO sense. Where on earth did you come up with that?

[fraquar]

What this is the equivalent of is the Revolutionaries handing over their own who were involved in the "Tea Party" to the English because the English demanded it........ It makes no sense. If you have any credibility at all you tell the English to go pound sand.

Edited August 25, 2014 by fraquar

[Lachdonin]

Guantanamo? That's not "Imperial soil" to the U.S., or to the people that are sent there

Uh, yes it is. It is the sovreign territory of the United States of America. However, if you need another example... Despite knowledge of the events, including torture and human rights violations, between the years of 2003 and 2005 more than 300 prisoners were handed over to the American military, to be held in Guantanamo, by the Canadian Armed Forces opperating in Afganistan. Why? Because of a prisoner jurisdiction treaty amongst NATO nations that gives the US primary authority over all prisoners taken in NATO opperations.

 

The fact that Northwatch is in Skyrim, and said prisoners are not transported to Summerset, is a logistical issue. Sukmerset is thousands of kilometers away, in a world without airplanes.

 

What this is the equivalent of is the Revolutionaries handing over their own who were involved in the "Tea Party" to the English because the English demanded it........ It makes no sense. If you have any credibility at all you tell the English to go pound sand.

Except the Colonies had no treaty with England requiring the transfer of said prisoners. In fact, the colonial mandates required the Colonies themselves to persicute the guilty parties, which they clearly were not going to do, since the guilty paarties were in charge of the Colonies themselves.

[fraquar]

The colonies had more than a treaty, they were actually part of the Empire. Even though they were obligated to pay those taxes and abide by Imperial law they chose not to, because the British Empire was over-stepping it's bounds. We see the exact same behavior in Skyrim. Empire negotiates a treaty with the enemy to make it illegal (punishable by death as the Thalmor see fit) to worship their god? Watching the Empire willing hand over people to the Thalmor and be their police force?

 

Empire that is out of control, and one that shouldn't wonder why it's members choose to ignore it.

[Lachdonin]

The colonies had more than a treaty, they were actually part of the Empire. Even though they were obligated to pay those taxes and abide by Imperial law they chose not to, because the British Empire was over-stepping it's bounds.

 

Actually, the British Empire never once collected on the taxes, which were imposed to pay for the 7 Years War against France, started when the colonials invaded Acadia. It was a legitimate attempt to pay for a war the American colonists started without the authority of the crown. The Brittish overstepped nothing, all the American Rebellion was, was an attempt by a burgeoning American aristocracy to seize control and wealth for themselves, the irony being that the American citizens actually paid more taxes after the revolt than before. What's more, there are surviving minutes from the British Parliament which indicate that they were more than willing to forgo the taxes (which again, no one was actually paying anyway) but they learned of the unrest too late, because Benjamin Franklin, the Colonial Ambassador at the time, deliberately misled them about the unrest in America for the purposes of fostering rebellion, and ultimately succession.

 

Ironically, it's rather similar to the situation in Skyrim with Ulfric using the Talos ban as a platform, despite the fact that before he kicked up the fuss it was never enforced anyway. Even Ulfric admits he doesn't really care about Talos, and it just using it to incite unrest and prop up his rebellion.

 

But that's still not the point, because the American Rebellion was not even remotely similar to the treaty between the Empire and the Dominion. Again, as PART OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE, the Colonies were required to persecute the guilty parties involved in the Boston Tea Party themselves. The Concordant, on the other hand, requires the handing over of violators to the Dominion for persecution. The British-American system is more akin to the Guards of Choral prosecuting you under Imperial Law for theft.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Lachdonin

[pyroteqnix232]

 

Umm, how many DAYS travel is it to Cyrodill from Skyrim? Spain to Russia is measured in MONTHS.

Aren't they neighboring contries????Either that or they have Hammerfell between them