The Amazing Non Responsive Jump Keyy

[ecksile]

I'm sure many of you have come across..."The Non Responsive Jump Key". Basically when you want to jump from 1 object to another you go to hit the jump button and instead you just run off the object and no jump...I felt I should address this issue as I've seen it complained about before, blaming the collision as the culprit. I for one at first thought it might be a game mechanics response time problem but then realized its not...then i thought maybe an animation issue (slow animations) and perhaps it is partly? Not sure..But then I thought Collisions and I'm not the only one who has thought this but, its not collision in this case. And so that brings me to the problem...Physics. It is a physics problem..I was gonna write a really long explanation about how and why its physics comparing to other games as my source reference and posting some videos, but i jus had an epiphany and i figure ill get right to the point (pretty much because i forgot my amazingly professional write up i had in my head last night while trying to fall asleep). Put simply its Gravity. Gravity isn't keeping the player grounded when moving on uneven objects or objects with sudden height variations. Its not a collision problem in this case (well it is but its not the collisions fault to say) its gravity. When you run on an object which has steep fall offs (stairs, rocks, ramps) the movement forward speed is to fast for the players mass to gravity ratio to pick up and keep the player "grounded" If you have noticed there are times where you will just run straight off a ramp/stairs and run in the air instead or staying stuck to the ramp/stairs all the way down them (Ive noticed this mostly with sprinting but its the same problem for the jump key with or without sprinting). Now I had some solutions and discussion stuff and cool videos demonstrating proper gravity but i forgot in the transition from yesterday to today >.< (lost a couple of hours of sleep for nothing...), but it had to do something with possibly increasing the players mass so the player is considered heavier and less affected by the "moon like" gravity. I haven't looked at gravity controls/variables yet but I'm pretty sure its a rather simple "function" (simple being dumbed down) with probably like 2 controllers/variables so idk if its fixable at all. This is simply a theory and I'm just curious about your thoughts on the matter because non the less a non responsive jump key is pretty annoying either that or maybe I'm just trying to do a little to crazy of acrobatics xD.

[Nadin]

Thank you. Much better than the usual "ZOMG Y CAN'T I JUMP LOL" You'll find everywhere.

Actually, your physics thing makes sense. Maybe that should be looked into.

Then again, part of the problem could be because the PLAYER DOESN'T"T HAVE ANY FREAKING LEGS.

[BadPenney]

I don't know, but I want some of it too.

[Giggsy]

I believe the most obvious explenation would be : lag, and that you are pressing your system to hard.

I have the same problem sometimes with the mouse button. Sometimes (in the Anchorage War Memorial, with the Mirelurks), the game wouldn't recognize my mouse clicks, and my character won't fire. This can be a pretty big problem (as you are backpedling away from Mirelurks with your sawed-off shotgun) and it has sometimes happened with the jump mechanics as well. This occurs were the Frame rate drops so I would say that I think this is your culprit.

[ecksile]

I sit at a solid 50 frames when using FSR fps cap in exteriors and 60-64 when not as well as Never dropping under 30 on cell loads. In interiors i don't even get drops...unless actual full on game engine lag that drops me to like 2-9 FPS and never goes away until restart or alt tab. So FPS is at the bottom of my list for anything. The reason your weapon doesn't notice the clicks is because if your using a semi-auto weapon is because you have a limited fire rate for that gun where the game engine limits the animations ability to be replayed within a certain amount of time. Unless "you" have really low fps or fps lag. No pun intended. If you compare the gamebryo against engines with more advanced physics (source, xray, unreal) you will notice the difference in run speed doesn't affect your ability to stay grounded. While FPS and other things my play a slight roll in the problem I'm pretty sure its physics.

[Nadin]

Actually, I've had the same bug in the UT3 engine, but only in low gravity.

[pob255]

I'm pretty sure it's the combo of game physics (which gravity is a part of), simplfied motion system and ground impact/plane structure.

 

All to do with how all game handles human motion, a human model just moves/slides about on the x&y axis while playing a walk or run animation, as Nadin so accurately put it

PLAYER DOESN'T"T HAVE ANY FREAKING LEGS.

ture walking/running invloving shifting your weight about from one foot to another is a knightmare to accurately model and would require a heck of a lot of processing power.

 

Many games get around the issue with carefull use of colision boxes and simply removeing any troublesome angled slopes, many of the steeply angled slopes in FO3 that the player can stand on but not jump from would simply have the player slide off in other games.

 

It's one of thoes areas in games that is a comprimise between a simplified physics model, perceptive "realism" and game play.

That's not to say it couldn't be tweeked.

 

For the case of running down stairs and not being able to jump it's probably forward motion vs fall rate, ie your player is probably falling diagonally downward only just landing on the lip of each step for a fraction of a second before starting its next downward fall.

This could also be tied into the animation in the same way fireing a gun is, you may need to be in solid ground contact for more than one frame of the jump animation for the action to occure.

 

One thing I've noted is that the player has limited airborn motion control, when trying to jump up a steep slope (when say climbing some rocks) some times you cannot jump while holding forward, however you can still often jump up, or even backwards, if you stop trying to move up the slope at the same time as jumping, you can then move forwards while in the air, which can allow you to get a bit higher up the rock face.

[Giggsy]

I sit at a solid 50 frames when using FSR fps cap in exteriors and 60-64 when not as well as Never dropping under 30 on cell loads. In interiors i don't even get drops...unless actual full on game engine lag that drops me to like 2-9 FPS and never goes away until restart or alt tab. So FPS is at the bottom of my list for anything. The reason your weapon doesn't notice the clicks is because if your using a semi-auto weapon is because you have a limited fire rate for that gun where the game engine limits the animations ability to be replayed within a certain amount of time. Unless "you" have really low fps or fps lag. No pun intended. If you compare the gamebryo against engines with more advanced physics (source, xray, unreal) you will notice the difference in run speed doesn't affect your ability to stay grounded. While FPS and other things my play a slight roll in the problem I'm pretty sure its physics.

 

Well, the reason why MY gun won't fire when I click the mousr-button is because of Lag. I admit, my Frame Rate drops sometimes, but often in a fire-fight, the game seems to be running without lag, and the gun still won't fire, and believe me: The gun CAN fire faster. Often I see this problem with the Shotgun, and it is really slow to fire.

I haven't had any trouble with the jumping.

[BossDweebe]

I don't think we are not meant to jump like we could as a Wood Elf, but still, it is pretty weak in FO3.

The jump hight can possibly be changed in the scripts, or maybe the race menu.

 

FO3 has a lot of no go zones that Oblivion did not have, so high jumping is not as

necessary in any case.

[BadPenney]

Well, the reason why MY gun won't fire when I click the mousr-button is because of Lag. I admit, my Frame Rate drops sometimes, but often in a fire-fight, the game seems to be running without lag, and the gun still won't fire, and believe me: The gun CAN fire faster. ...

This may be a special feature for those who want added realism in their game... the jammed weapon! Virtual dirt could be slowing your rate of fire. Time to use a solvent, rag and oil kit to maintain it.