HUGE Idea post about Ammo, Small Guns, FWE, -- a possible major modmod

[Gavinfoxx]

So, here I am, playing FWE, and I am trying to figure out the various added guns and ammunition and stuff, and am looking and reading about all the CALIBR stuff, and real ammo, and ammo of the past in the fallout universe, and some thoughts struck me...

 

1. Fallout universe ammunition makes no sense

2. But the original game didn't do a BAD job in getting a limited number of ammunition types for gameplay

3. The in universe power armor reasoning is "to be able to carry and fight with really big weapons"

4. Having lots of heavy guns and heavy ammunition, with the weight thing added, and it being worth it, might help the game a lot. It lets ammo both be crazy awesome, plentiful, and makes it so you can't CARRY lots of it in the end game, you just refill it really often.

5. You know, it might be possible to have a varied list of guns, and realistic ammo types, and not sacrifice gameplay...

 

So to me, there are a few ammo types that could be considered "Needed" in this game

 

1. A small pistol ammo

2. A big pistol round

3. Some really advanced and neat but expensive and rare personal defense weapon round for the high tech small guns

4. A small rifle round

5. A big rifle round

6. Shotgun round

 

Think of it, with this, you could put almost all of the fallout guns into a set of very few categories

 

1. Small pistol round. This can be used for the concealable guns that you get for the Pitt, and used for a low quality "starting" gun, and lots of the silenceable stuff, and most of the SMGs. For example, this one round could take the "gameplay space" of the 10mm pistol, the chinese pistol, the .32 pistol, the 10mm smg, the silenced 10mm pistol, etc. To me, this is a basic 9mm NATO round. A generic name would also work, like, "Small Pistol Ammo". If you wanted to fold stock ammo into this and make stock weapons follow this format, you would make the .32 and the 9mm this, and make the 10mm pistol, .32 pistol, silenced 10mm pistol, and 10mm smg use this. If you wanted to fold FWE weapons into this, I would make the .32 pistol, MAYBE the Law Dog, the 10mm pistol, the alloy 10mm pistol, the silenced 10mm pistol, the alloy 10mm pistol, the 10mm SMG, the Alloy 10mm SMG, and the silenced alloy 10mm pistol use this.

 

2. A big pistol round. This could take the gameplay space of the 14mm pistol, the 44 magnum, the desert eagle, the .223 pistol, the grease gun, the tommy gun, the unique and higher quality .32 pistols, and maybe some sort of bigger carbine that uses a pistol round, to be a high damage per shot silenced gun. The sort of thing that the program like the Zhu-Rong was focused on doing -- getting extra per shot damage out of NON specialized ammunition. To me, IF there are a few non unique PDW type guns added, those "chinese pistols" should probably all be using this ammo, and all be silenced, since the idea of those stealthsuits (in the REAL anchorage, not the pretend simulation) is to get close, snipe quietly to take out the power armor guys, and LEAVE... and be able to travel very lightly and steal ammo when they have to... only using their own specialized lightweight ammo (5.8x21?) when they have to. To me, this round should be a .45acp. A generic name would also work, like, "Big Pistol Ammo". If you wanted to change default (no fwe) ammo into this, you could change the .44 into this, and you would let lever action, Lincoln's repeater, Backwater Rifle, Wild Bills Sidearm (make it look like an unscoped magnum), Paulsons Revolver, the Scoped Magnum, Blackhawk (dont need to change the name of that one, there is actually a .45acp blackhawk revolver out there...), Callahans (probably going to want to change this one if it isn't a .44 ya know...) use this round. If I was changing FWE weapons to use this, I would make the Chinese Pistol, the Chinese Dragoon Pistol, the Zhu Rong, the Lever Action Rifle, Lincolns Repeater, the Backwater Rifle, the Pipe Rifle, Wild Bill's Sidearm, Wehrner's 44, Callahan's, the Grease Gun, the Tommy Gun, the Desert Eagle, Paulson's, the .44, and the Blackhawk use this, with appropriate name changes

 

3. Some super high tech personal defensive weapon round, caseless round, or some composite extra small rifle round. Taking the gameplay space of the G11 and the P90C, XL70E3, or making a plausible excuse for sydneys SMG, the Needler pistol, infiltrator and perforator, and Colonal Autumns pistol to be MUCH more awesome than your average pistol without having some crazy "it sets you on fire!" thing to get more bang out of a normal ammo round. To me, this should probably be a 4.7mm caseless, or the 5.8x21 if it is chinese (which might make sense...), or the 5.7x28 or the 4.6x30, or some crazy caseless version if we can figure out what a caseless PDW round would be or look like. This is something that you RARELY find, but when you DO happen to find it, you find it in relatively large quantities, so it encourages hoarding. Probably won't be silenceable, probably just slightly supressable... but that would mostly depend on gameplay needs, and how sci fi ish the round is. This might be something that a multibarrel gun could use, maybe a "Vindicator Microgun". A generic name would also work, like "PDW Ammo". If you wanted to fold stock ammo into this, you would make 5mm ammo into this, and maybe make Sydney's Ultra SMG, Infiltrator, Perforator, Chinese Pistols (only if you aren't using extra FWE guns or something... otherwise those can go under big pistol round, as you will have some other "standard" gun that uses this ammo). More specifically, if I was changing FWE, I would make Butch's 10mm, the FNP90c, Colonal Autumn's 10mm, Sydney's 10mm Ultra, the XL70E3, the Infiltrator, the Needler, the G11, the G11E, the Vindicator, and the Perforator use this. Some High Tech pistols I would cut would be the Gauss pistol, the 14mm, the .223 (with SO many high end pistols in the big pistol list, we need to cut a few), and MAYBE the needler.

 

4. A small rifle round. From here up, the idea is that you cant have a completely "silent" weapon. the quietest they get is "Normal" in GECK. This would be used in your assault rifle, chinese assault rifle, hunting rifle, a scoped designated marksman's rifle (something like a more accurate, but still loud, assault rifle but with a scope and a slower refire rate), a scoped hunting rifle, a squad support weapon, etc. This is a 'go to' ammo, but it is LOUD. ... it would also be the first "common ammo" multibarrel gun, probably called a "Microgun". To me, this is the 5.56 round... and if you wanted to fold... wait a minute, there is no need! A generic name would also work, like, "Small Rifle Ammo". If you wanted to fold Normal (non FWE) guns into this, you would use it for the Hunting Rifle, Old Painless, the Assault Rifle, the Minigun, and Eugene. You might or might not rename the Minigun a Microgun in default... for FWE, I would make the Assault Rifle, the Alloy Steel Assault Rifle, Jericho's Assault Rifle, Wanda, the L86 LSW, the Chinese Assault Rifle, the Xuanlong Assault Rifle, and the Minigun, but NONE of these are quiet.

 

5. A large rifle round. This would fill the gameplay space of the sniper rifles, the FN FAL, any other battle rifles, light machine guns, and the true Miniguns. Doesn't go down to "normal" loudness, ALWAYS "loud". To me, this is the 7.62 round. I see nothing wrong with sniper ammo being common as long as it is HEAVY. A generic name would also work, like, "Big Rifle Ammo". If you wanted to fold Normal (non FWE) guns into this, this would be for the Sniper Rifle, Victory Rifle, Reservists Rifle, the Chinese Assault Rifle, and the Xuanlong Assault Rifle, which could be renamed to "Chinese Battle Rifle" and "Xuanlong Battle Rifle". For the FWE version, this would be used in the Bozar, FN FAL, the M60, but also the Sniper Rifle, the Victory Rifle, and Eugene.

 

This would also make possible the nice, simple 9 < .45 < 4.6 < 5.56 < 7.62, which is RELATIVELY easy for a non firearms expert type person to get.

 

Of course, there is really no need to add shotgun ammo or change shotgun ammo in any way, even in FWE.

 

So... does anyone have any ideas on WHAT it would take, minimum, to make a good number of these changes to the "default" fallout + DLC's? Especially changing things so that, for example, the ammo distribution of the "default ammo placement", and the Ammo press, make sense? How about with FWE, changing so the ammo press can work with all of these, and the Outcast working with these, and all the weird placed weapons have the right ammo, and all that?

 

What do you guys think about these ideas? I think that these ideas, refined a bit more, could greatly help gameplay! What do you all think?

[aktaylorh]

I get the concept, but some of the stuff doesn't make sense. The reason a gun is called a 10mm is because it takes 10mm bullets. A .32 pistol takes .32 bullets. They couldnt use the same amunition. If someone where to do this mode they should make it so that the bullets make sense to which gun they are being used in though i think fallout isnt too far of on that. I do like your idea to give ammo weight though so by the end of your game you can actually run out of ammo instead of having a crazy amount.

[Namorax]

To be honest, I don't really care about my ammunition making sense or not. Most of the time, I pick up the weapons of my fallen enemies, loot their remaining ammo and shoot the survivors until my weapon breaks or the ammo runs out. Then I throw the weapon away, search the next corpse and hope I'll survive this fight.

[imagine my joy when the only weapon I could find was a BB Gun. And the last living enemy was a Super Mutant...]

 

I didn't check, but I think you could realize your idea if you change the names of the existing ammunition. Then you'd have to go over every single weapon and check what kind of ammo they need and make some changes if neccessary.

THEN you would have to check the LVL-Lists to see if every Weapon spawns with the correct ammo or your enemies will have to use their heavy guns as clubs and beat you to death.

[BadPenney]

"This would also make possible the nice, simple 9 < .45 < 4.6 < 5.56 < 7.62, which is RELATIVELY easy for a non firearms expert type person to get."

 

A non firearms expert type person isn't going to care,

 

"These bullets fit in this gun and thay make big holes. I'm good."

[Scatterspell]

My only problem with this idea is that's it been done well enough with FOOK, Calibr and FWE.

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay, of COURSE I would change the names of most of the guns, as necessary. I'm just trying to figure out how the ammo could match the look of the gun could match it's gameplay use could match a relatively

 

Well my main issues were that FWE, using Calibr, actually WASN'T fully done well with me. For example, a lot of the guns seemed to be shoehorned in, and the only places you can get ammo is at the outcast place, and SOME of the Talon mercs, and you can't get it at the pitt ammo press. What I would do is, ideally, make it so that there are only a few types of ammo in the ENTIRE game, and that each makes sense, and each is placed intelligently, and the places where ammo is already placed "in game" help show where to put the "new" ammo. Basically, it is more an "intelligent replacement and tweaking" than "major addition".

[Gavinfoxx]

Oh by the way, I was also implying that part of the changes would be the GUNS making sense.

 

Let me try explaining this again! Basically...

 

Small Pistol Ammo guns have the lowest damage per shot, but they are the only thing that has a tiny gun that can be concealed, are light, are super easy to completely silence, and can easily carry large amounts of ammo in one gun and have a high rate of fire. They have low range though. The ammo, like the guns, are plentiful, cheap, and light. This is generally for pistols, machine pistols, concealable pistols, silenced pistols, smaller sub machine guns.

 

Big Pistol Ammo guns have a decent amount of damage per shot, but often only have a moderate rate of fire, are only rarely full auto, don't have great range, and require more specialized weapons to be able to be silenced. They are, however, the most damaging per shot thing that can be fully silenced though. Also, there are a few odd hand cannons here and there that seem to get more damage out of these than should normally be possible, and a few specialized ways like super-heating the ammo to get it to do extra damage. It is, at best, low-medium range. This is used in bigger pistols, sub machine guns, and revolvers, mostly.

 

Self Defense Weapon Ammo guns do a good amount of damage per shot, fire quickly, and each gun can carry lots of ammo, and they are light to boot. They even have pretty good range, better than big pistol ammo guns. The only problem is that they are rare, costly, and since they are supersonic, can't really be fully silenced, just somewhat supressed, at best. These are used in very high quality, specialised personal defense weapons which are generally like sub machine guns, but supersonic and generally "better", and maybe a super high tech multi barrel microgun that is actually surprisingly easy to handle.

 

Small Rifle Ammo guns do great damage per shot, and have long range, being the first thing where it is really worth it to have a scope rather than not having it. However, putting a suppressor requires specialized tools, and at best, makes them "not loud". However, they are really common, fire pretty fast (though not as crazy fast as much smaller rounds unless it is coming out of a multi barrel gun), and very accurate when shot out of a non automatic weapon, for those headshots. This even lets you use high ammo capacity squad support weapons, which are always useful for suppressive fire. Your M16 type assault rifle goes here! This is what the most common multi barrel microguns shoot. These rounds have a moderate weight and moderate cost, but end up pretty common.

 

Big Rifle Ammo has the highest damage per shot of pretty much anything, and has extreme range, but it is laughable to try and make this anything but "loud", and it really can't be shot out of anything smaller than a Battle Rifle. Automatic weapons of this are extremely deadly, but utterly un subtle, and not good for very close quarters combat. This is where you can find your first true machine gun, and your first true minigun, and your first true sniper rifle. These rounds are big, heavy, and pretty expensive... but not actually rare. They are just hard to haul around because of their bulk and weight... Making something that fires these rounds rapidly, is able to be carried, aimed, handled, while actually standing and walking, and managing to HIT something, AND carrying enough ammo to KEEP firing it, is the real reason that power armor was invented.

[Namorax]

Where do you fit weapons like the Flamethrower? Where does thie weapon fit in?

[Gavinfoxx]

Namorax: Some other mod?

 

They don't NEED as much change, though, Neither do the energy weapons. FWE does fine with energy weapons, missile launchers, grenade launchers, flamethrowers, etc.

[Burbinator]

If you dl xcalibr munitions, it adds in a merchant that sells all calibr ammo. There is a fwe addon as well that makes it fully compatible. That gives you a decent amoutn of .45acp, 2mmEC, and 14mm. 14mm and .45acp are sold by certain merchants anyway. And every other ammo type is found in relative abundance, .308 is hard to get but it's only used for the powerful, single shot sniper rifle. I'm not really sure what benefit your idea would provide considering the work you'd need to do for it.