HUGE Idea post about Ammo, Small Guns, FWE, -- a possible major modmod

[Gavinfoxx]

Well yea, the merchants DO sell it, but at the very least, I would want

The Pitt ammo press to be modded for more ammo types...

 

But in my opinion, that is a patch, not a SOLUTION. The mod should feel seamless, that's the whole point...

[Nihilisaurus]

2mmEC should be ridiculously rare, it's freaking pre-war prototype Jesus beating up T51B with one hand ammo. I don't know if even the Enclave can manufacture it... Also, some ammo types are going to be rare, in fact most should. Ammo is a precious commodity, making it useable in all sorts of guns eliminates the need to find *that* weapon to fire your latest haul, or find more of *that* ammo to feed your favoured armament. The problem isn't that there's too little of some ammo but there's too much of the other kinds :P

[Gavinfoxx]

2mmEC should be ridiculously rare, it's freaking pre-war prototype Jesus beating up T51B with one hand ammo. I don't know if even the Enclave can manufacture it... Also, some ammo types are going to be rare, in fact most should. Ammo is a precious commodity, making it useable in all sorts of guns eliminates the need to find *that* weapon to fire your latest haul, or find more of *that* ammo to feed your favoured armament. The problem isn't that there's too little of some ammo but there's too much of the other kinds :P

 

Well, my idea is that there is ONE type of "rare" ammo on the list. that you CAN get, but it is hard and you should hoard it until it becomes relatively plentiful when you are extremely high level and fighting in the endgame, and most of the guns that fire it fire it QUICKLY, so it isn't an ammo that is used for one shot kills generally. To me, that is some kind of SDW ammo. Some weird type of sci fi "caseless 4.6mm PDW ammo" would be the idea. Also, if you didn't notice, I suggested cutting the 2mm ammo gauss weapons... and the idea for these changes is that, in each stack, it IS rare and you do NOT find a lot of it (think FWE default levels...), but that it does happen to be widely usable in appropriate weapons when you DO get it, so you have to make hard decisions on what to use it in, and managing to CARRY a huge amount of it to the Pitt ammo press (remember with the weight....) is difficult, but VERY VERY worth it!

[Burbinator]

Rarity is a huge reason why 2mmEC should not be usable with the ammo press. They simply don't have the technology at the Pitt to manufacture high end ammunition like this. So either way you come up with an unrealistic method of obtaining 2mmEC ammunition. Why not just buy it instead of doing a complete overhaul of the system? Or why not just edit the ammo press to make 2mmEC without changing every single ammo type?

 

I dunno, when using FWE I think current ammo rarity is fine.

Not much 14mm, but 14mm is the best pistol so that's cool.

4.7mm caseless and 7.62x51mm can both be bought in large quantities at ammo stores (lucky harith, flak/shrapnel, sydney)

2mmEC SHOULD be rare, because those guns are very good

.45ACP is very common both in the wasteland and in shops

 

Perhaps it's an issue using other weapon mods, I can't really comment on that since I don't use them. But FWE has the balance nearly perfect IMO. If ammo types in general are too rare, then turn up ammo quantity in the FWE control panel. I just don't see the benefit of this mod. Maybe if you are using 20th century weapons?

 

But don't let me get you down if you really really like the idea. Go make it yourself and I'll try it out, maybe I might change my mind or maybe it'll become a top 10 pick.

[Gavinfoxx]

Rarity is a huge reason why 2mmEC should not be usable with the ammo press. They simply don't have the technology at the Pitt to manufacture high end ammunition like this. So either way you come up with an unrealistic method of obtaining 2mmEC ammunition. Why not just buy it instead of doing a complete overhaul of the system? Or why not just edit the ammo press to make 2mmEC without changing every single ammo type?

 

I dunno, when using FWE I think current ammo rarity is fine.

Not much 14mm, but 14mm is the best pistol so that's cool.

4.7mm caseless and 7.62x51mm can both be bought in large quantities at ammo stores (lucky harith, flak/shrapnel, sydney)

2mmEC SHOULD be rare, because those guns are very good

.45ACP is very common both in the wasteland and in shops

 

Perhaps it's an issue using other weapon mods, I can't really comment on that since I don't use them. But FWE has the balance nearly perfect IMO. If ammo types in general are too rare, then turn up ammo quantity in the FWE control panel. I just don't see the benefit of this mod. Maybe if you are using 20th century weapons?

 

But don't let me get you down if you really really like the idea. Go make it yourself and I'll try it out, maybe I might change my mind or maybe it'll become a top 10 pick.

 

 

No I meant drop 2mm EC alltogether. The idea is this -- there are only so many 'types' of weapons that can conceivably be generated using small guns and this game system, and have them be ALL be DIFFERENT and USEFUL. Basically, my idea is to stratify ammunition based weapons into categories that help differentiate each basic "type" of weapon based on, VERY roughly, what that ammo might be good for in real life.

 

checking Calibr, lets see what the DEFAULT Calibr info...

 

9x19mm, value 1, clip size 12

.45acp, value 2, clip size 12

5.56, value 1, clip size 24

7.62x51, value 1, clip size 20

5mm, value 1, clip size 100

2mm ec, value 2, clip size 20

.357 sig, value 3, clip size 12

5.7x28mm, value 2, clip size 20

4.6x30mm, value 2, clip size 20

 

WITH FWE AND CHANGES TO CALIBR AMMO LOADED:

 

9x19mm round, value 2, clip count 12 WEIGHT .03

.45 acp round, value 2, clip count 12 WEIGHT .03

5.56, value 2, clip count 24 WEIGHT .05

7.62x51mm round, value 3, clip count 20 WEIGHT .05

5mm, value 1, clip count 100, WEIGHT .01

2mm ec, value 5, clip count 20 WEIGHT .01

4.7mm caseless, value 1, clip count 50 WEIGHT .01

.357 SIG round, value 3, clip count 12

5.7x28mm, value 2, clip count 20

4.6x30mm, value 2, clip count 20

 

also, it adds weight changes to these as well.

 

To me, I would keep MOST of the changes FWE does to the ammo, but make them like, say, this:

 

9x19mm, value 2, clip count 12, WEIGHT .03

.45 acp, value 2, clip count 12, WEIGHT .03

5.56, value 2, clip count 24, WEIGHT .05

5.7x28mm, value 3, clip count 40, WEIGHT .01

7.62x51mm, Value 4, clip count 24, weight .07

 

Thoughts? This makes it so that if you are going to want to be using a 7.62 weapon as your main weapon, you are GOING to want power armor to help carry all the ammo and the gun (the stated reason for power armor in the first place...)

 

Also... i would say, roughly...

a 9x19mm SMG would have a 10/sec rof

a .45 acp smg would have a 6/sec rof

a 5.56 assault rifle would have an 8/sec rof

a 5.7x28 PDW would have a 12/sec rof

a 7.62x51mm battle rifle would have a 6/sec rof

 

(edit: I double checked based on the expected DPS of FWE guns, and see my observations and change to this list in a later post...)

 

 

See? DIFFERENT.

[Gavinfoxx]

Hey guys, some of you thought that 10mm is 10mm, dont make it 9mm, or whatever, I just thought I could do a quick renaming guide... for example...

 

.32 Revolver --> Taurus 905 9mm Revolver

.44 Magnum --> S&W 625 .45 ACP Revolver

10mm pistol --> N99 9mm Pistol

Silenced 10mm Pistol --> Silenced N99 9mm Pistol

10mm SMG --> MP9 9mm SMG

Chinese Pistol --> Shansei C96 .45 ACP Pistol

[TotallyNotToastyFresh]

I've never cared much for all these ammo overhaul mods. They honestly don't add any immersion to the game for me. What I would like to see is a mod which makes ammo much more common around the wastes, however it must also add an ammo cap, say, a max of 600 5.56 rounds, max 180 10mm rounds, etc. Would make a run 'n gun style much better as I wouldn't need too turn the entire game upside down to find ammo.

[Gavinfoxx]

So I have been looking at FWE's ammo and dps and such, and I THINK I have come up with a good range of "useful" damages for the weapons in general, to be categorized by what they fire... this is based on the damage and health and armor and such in FWE!!

 

9mm = 20 damage per shot, +/- 2 damage per shot, based on weapon. General maximum shots per second on full auto is 10/sec, so for the highest end (probably that alloy steel mp9 from the anchorage vault) 9mm weapon, 22 x 10 = 220 dps

 

.45 = 22 damage per shot, +/- 2 damage per shot, based on weapon. General maximum shots per second on full auto is 8/sec, so for the highest end (probably a unique UMP or Tommy Gun, to be placed) .45 weapon, 24 x 8 = 192 dps

 

4.6mm = 24 damage per shot, +/- 2 damage per shot, based on weapon. General maximum shots per second on full auto for the highest end (probably autumn's weapon, or sydney's, making this the fastest firing rate small gun ammo in the game) single barrel weapon is 10/sec, so for the highest end single barrel weapon, 26 x 10 = 260 dps

 

A minigun in this would ONLY be unique (Vindicator!), and could be, say, 25 damage per shot, 20 shots per second, for 500 damage per second

 

5.56 = 26 damage per shot, +/- 2 damage per shot, based on weapon. General maximum shots per second on full auto for the highest end (probably a unique big guns skill squad support weapon, to be placed; the xuanlong would be 8/sec and small guns) single barrel weapon is 10/sec, so for the highest end single barrel weapon, 28 x 10 = 280 dps

 

Miniguns in this would be the most common, with 24 damage per shot, 18 shots per second, for 432 damage per second

 

7.62 = 28 damage per shot, +/- 2 damage per shot, based on weapon. General maximum shots per second on full auto for a single barrel weapon (probably a unique M60, maybe that Warthog from FOOK2, a small guns version would be a unique FAL variant at 8/sec) is 10/sec, so for the highest end single barrel weapon, 30 x 10 = 300 dps

 

A minigun for this would probably be unique (Eugene!), for 26 damage per shot, with 18 shots per second, for 468 dps.

 

12ga shell = 45 damage per shot, +/- 5 damage per shot, based on weapon. General maximum shots per second on full auto (Probably a Big Guns Unique Pancor Jackhammer, to be placed; a small guns would be a Unique CAWS, also to be placed, at 3/sec) is 4/sec, so for the highest end weapon, 50 x 4 = 200 dps

 

Of course this is just for the automatic guns, the semi auto versions and the revolvers and such could have much extra damage per shot, as they fire slower, but never so much such that the DPS outdoes the "top tier" auto dps for that gun...

[Nihilisaurus]

No I meant drop 2mm EC alltogether. The idea is this -- there are only so many 'types' of weapons that can conceivably be generated using small guns and this game system, and have them be ALL be DIFFERENT and USEFUL. Basically, my idea is to stratify ammunition based weapons into categories that help differentiate each basic "type" of weapon based on, VERY roughly, what that ammo might be good for in real life.

What? And have gauss rifles shoot peas? Sometimes there's a good reason for rarity and cost... It's usually a sign of value. 2mmEC should be expensive as hell, cost 10-20 caps a shot but a few rounds should take out an Enclave APA. This stuff is what a Paladin's nightmares are made of and cutting is is really quite stupid, the whole idea is you're not meant to have much of it. It's like sniper ammo but better. Also your ammo tables neglect the unbalancing effect of non-automatic weapons which promise far better ammo conservation and hence really screwing over your balance . :happy:

[Burbinator]

I've never cared much for all these ammo overhaul mods. They honestly don't add any immersion to the game for me. What I would like to see is a mod which makes ammo much more common around the wastes, however it must also add an ammo cap, say, a max of 600 5.56 rounds, max 180 10mm rounds, etc. Would make a run 'n gun style much better as I wouldn't need too turn the entire game upside down to find ammo.

 

ammunition limits: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10921

 

the max for 5.56 is actually only 240 while 10mm is 300. It's hard to balance ammo when considering automatic vs. semi automatic, but I think the guy did a pretty good job considering. I think he based it off of RoF with the best weapon in that category as a benchmark, or something along those lines.

 

as for making ammo more common, I don't know of any off the top of my head but I think such mods are fairly common.