spoiler The Death of Ser Jory

[DarkeWolf]

The way that I sum it up is this. Its just like the whole "Mhairi" crap that people are so upset about. People die from the joining. Thats that. He just took a different route to the dirtnap.

 

Jory was recruited. Daveth was conscripted to get him outta jail. Daveth, I kinda liked. But I wouldnt have wanted him around in the party. Having Zev chasing anything femme is enough for me, I don't want two of um that do it.

 

It was his fate to die. Flemeth pretty much said so. She knew it was gonna happen. He was a redshirt. He died a coward's death.

[brokenergy]

Ser Jory failed because he couldn't understand the gravity of the situation. The was an Archdemon approaching and he was more concerned about his family. He was warned about it and so was everybody else, so it was sad that he took the cowards path and chose his live above the life of others. Speaking of Daveth, the only reason he failed because he was too confidant of himself and was weak compared to you. You however were willing to risk everything and that's why you survived. I'm just trying to remember the book where there was a joining some what like DA:O in order to makes things clearer (or was it on T.V?)

[tinylewtgriffon]

Jory was a coward. He needed to join or *raspberry*

[Firinneach]

Generally, I fall into the "necessary but unfortunate" camp. I agree that it's a moving way to set up early on that the warden's are about duty and doing whatever is necessary to preserve existence. Also sets the tone that this is going to be a game of tough decisions, with no obvious right or wrong. The fact that Jory was indeed warned that there is no turning back also helps remove many of the problems I'd normally have with such an action.

 

BUT...

 

--spoiler warning for Awakenings--

 

I feel this whole wonderful scene and debate is then completely undercut at the beginning of Awakenings. It seems like every other person knows about the joining. Heck, the person that performs the ritual and says the words isn't even a warden! I understand why for technical issues this was done, but it still in my opinion ruins the whole issue of having to kill Jory.

[SpellAndShield]

Generally, I fall into the "necessary but unfortunate" camp. I agree that it's a moving way to set up early on that the warden's are about duty and doing whatever is necessary to preserve existence. Also sets the tone that this is going to be a game of tough decisions, with no obvious right or wrong. The fact that Jory was indeed warned that there is no turning back also helps remove many of the problems I'd normally have with such an action.

 

BUT...

 

--spoiler warning for Awakenings--

 

I feel this whole wonderful scene and debate is then completely undercut at the beginning of Awakenings. It seems like every other person knows about the joining. Heck, the person that performs the ritual and says the words isn't even a warden! I understand why for technical issues this was done, but it still in my opinion ruins the whole issue of having to kill Jory.

 

You are one of the mod gods...just so you know.

 

Yes, it is all quite 'grey' with the Grey Wardens. That is one thing I love about this game. NOT black and white.

[Moonwing]

Ser Jory failed because he couldn't understand the gravity of the situation. The was an Archdemon approaching and he was more concerned about his family. He was warned about it and so was everybody else, so it was sad that he took the cowards path and chose his live above the life of others. Speaking of Daveth, the only reason he failed because he was too confidant of himself and was weak compared to you. You however were willing to risk everything and that's why you survived. I'm just trying to remember the book where there was a joining some what like DA:O in order to makes things clearer (or was it on T.V?)

Maybe for your characters it is true-for mine - no. Big no.

They are not heroes. They are "cowards" and will chose their own life in a cost of as many as needed. They are not better that Daveth.

I have tried to chose the most frightened and "I have no choice" answers. Because that is really how it is. My chars asked to be left in tower and take the death but no serve GW but no they were taken from here against their will.

They are blood mages so taint is not as much a death sentence to them(yep they will kill as many innocents as it will be needed to heal themselves of that "gift") as to any without a gift of magic but this is a big problem nether the less. And they see Dunkan as a murderer he not only kill Ser Jory but tried to kill them in a name of "a greater good" and that Alister know it all and just as guilty as his mentor. So they always turn down Morrigan ritual and watch with a deep pleasure as that holier-than-holy princeling die for his "grater good". And after they leave wardens and Ferelden forever in order to cure themselves in Tewinter, on the way taking their time to defile Dunkan`s grave. I newer chose "I amd the gray warden" andsvers only a name or "no one important". And hate when NPC call my characters Warden.

 

But I am a person who likes Anora, Isolde, Loghein and Belen and do not understand desire to be a hero at all. Self serving mercenary -yes. Hero who

sacrifise his life to serw the others- big no.

[VGfallout]

i think jory knew exactly what he was getting into, and was perfectly fine with becoming a G.Warden from the legends, having the name/infamy/etc make up for what couldnt be found in his spine.

the minute a little danger comes up to get the treaties, he's already starting to waiver and begins to feel the pressure in his thong

 

"Hey, you're that new guy/girl, hell yeah can't wait to join the wardens (like the CIA for us i suppose, for lack of a better...) , what an honor and rare opportunity, im glad i made an impression during whatever tourney i won after i overcame stage fright etc"

 

then...duncan drops a Major, Unexpected shocker, you're gonna have to face your tainted brethren.....yeah seriously, yeah today, in a few minutes in fact

 

now we see the spaghetti legs developing in his character..."hmm, ive never heard of such a ritual/recruitment procedure..how odd, you think they'd put us in danger? i dunno man...what if...i dont like this.." ..he starts becoming more of a liability, that type of attitude spreads like wildfire. hahahah i bet jory spread the darkspawn rumors that the "genlock commander" (on the little ramp next to king c's tent) was telling his men not to buy into.

 

the only positive memory i have with him is when he tells davith to chill and not make flemm angry if she really is a witch gone wild. ohh how can i forget, when you run into that wounded soldier, again, waivering..."they took out whole squad of trained soldiers..." you know what jory, i kill that soldier every time to see the little shocked expression you give, just to scare the crap outta you a bit more

 

i was laughing so hard when rusty mentioned the longsword anims vs duncan, ahahah dude i totally forgot about that

duncan came off like a jedi knight in that scene, parries a greatsword with a dagger (and perhaps while holding the joining chalice as well?), what tourney was it that you won exactly j-boy?

 

totally forgivable i suppose, but a bitter sweet irony making jory seem like even more of a weakling :D

 

hell yeah good reads here

[brokenergy]

Maybe for your characters it is true-for mine - no. Big no.

They are not heroes. They are "cowards" and will chose their own life in a cost of as many as needed. They are not better that Daveth.

I have tried to chose the most frightened and "I have no choice" answers. Because that is really how it is. My chars asked to be left in tower and take the death but no serve GW but no they were taken from here against their will.

They are blood mages so taint is not as much a death sentence to them(yep they will kill as many innocents as it will be needed to heal themselves of that "gift") as to any without a gift of magic but this is a big problem nether the less. And they see Dunkan as a murderer he not only kill Ser Jory but tried to kill them in a name of "a greater good" and that Alister know it all and just as guilty as his mentor. So they always turn down Morrigan ritual and watch with a deep pleasure as that holier-than-holy princeling die for his "grater good". And after they leave wardens and Ferelden forever in order to cure themselves in Tewinter, on the way taking their time to defile Dunkan`s grave. I newer chose "I amd the gray warden" andsvers only a name or "no one important". And hate when NPC call my characters Warden.

 

But I am a person who likes Anora, Isolde, Loghein and Belen and do not understand desire to be a hero at all. Self serving mercenary -yes. Hero who

sacrifise his life to serw the others- big no.

 

I'm saying in general perception of the warden, what path you choose is completely up to you. For example, you could betray your friends and family or be a hero. Ser Jory could not even stand up to the real situation, he was all in it for glory. Daveth understood the real situation but the reason he failed is because he was weak and the taint took it's toll on him. As a Grey Warden you have to do anything in your power to save the world from the blight and if it includes taking Morrigan's offer, then so be it.

[DarkeWolf]

i think jory knew exactly what he was getting into, and was perfectly fine with becoming a G.Warden from the legends, having the name/infamy/etc make up for what couldnt be found in his spine.

the minute a little danger comes up to get the treaties, he's already starting to waiver and begins to feel the pressure in his thong

 

"Hey, you're that new guy/girl, hell yeah can't wait to join the wardens (like the CIA for us i suppose, for lack of a better...) , what an honor and rare opportunity, im glad i made an impression during whatever tourney i won after i overcame stage fright etc"

 

then...duncan drops a Major, Unexpected shocker, you're gonna have to face your tainted brethren.....yeah seriously, yeah today, in a few minutes in fact

 

now we see the spaghetti legs developing in his character..."hmm, ive never heard of such a ritual/recruitment procedure..how odd, you think they'd put us in danger? i dunno man...what if...i dont like this.." ..he starts becoming more of a liability, that type of attitude spreads like wildfire. hahahah i bet jory spread the darkspawn rumors that the "genlock commander" (on the little ramp next to king c's tent) was telling his men not to buy into.

 

the only positive memory i have with him is when he tells davith to chill and not make flemm angry if she really is a witch gone wild. ohh how can i forget, when you run into that wounded soldier, again, waivering..."they took out whole squad of trained soldiers..." you know what jory, i kill that soldier every time to see the little shocked expression you give, just to scare the crap outta you a bit more

 

i was laughing so hard when rusty mentioned the longsword anims vs duncan, ahahah dude i totally forgot about that

duncan came off like a jedi knight in that scene, parries a greatsword with a dagger (and perhaps while holding the joining chalice as well?), what tourney was it that you won exactly j-boy?

 

totally forgivable i suppose, but a bitter sweet irony making jory seem like even more of a weakling :D

 

hell yeah good reads here

 

aw man! Duncan is NOT somebody you wanna mess with, when he's got daggers in his hand(s). If you ever get a chance to read the novel The Calling, by David Gaider, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Ya know the really cool death scene where you're riding the dragon, pounding it in the head, right before it falls? That was duncan, in the deep roads. The only one of the wardens there, that was ballsy enough to jump up on it's back and get his stabbity on. With a pair of knives.

 

Yeah, thats another thing about jory that always set me off. He's a KNIGHT!?!? What the hell??? How does a coward like that, get knighted?? Did he get his secret knight decoder ring out of a quarter machine, or what?

[Moonwing]

 

I'm saying in general perception of the warden, what path you choose is completely up to you. For example, you could betray your friends and family or be a hero. Ser Jory could not even stand up to the real situation, he was all in it for glory. Daveth understood the real situation but the reason he failed is because he was weak and the taint took it's toll on him. As a Grey Warden you have to do anything in your power to save the world from the blight and if it includes taking Morrigan's offer, then so be it.

 

I see. But what I am trying to say is that the fact that PC survives the ritual, in my option, have nothing to do with his/her will/determination/strength and other personal qualities. Its just the matter of pure luck and gameplay aka just-cause. As for me being Gray Warden is a curse and be proud and serve the curse it just unhealthy in my option my PCs done all what they do-for money and church immunity. But as you say it up to you to think that PC survives cause his/her up standing over Daveth and Ser Jory.