spoiler The Death of Ser Jory

[mickeymcp]

"Greedo drew... uh, Jory drew first"

 

It's only silly Jory had to die in retrospect - at the time we're led to believe that the joining ritual is some well guarded secret, but the truth is by the end of the game everyone seems to know about the joining ritual.

[SpellAndShield]

"Greedo drew... uh, Jory drew first"

 

It's only silly Jory had to die in retrospect - at the time we're led to believe that the joining ritual is some well guarded secret, but the truth is by the end of the game everyone seems to know about the joining ritual.

 

Well, I am looking forward to the possibility of killing him in the Darkspawn Chronicles...alternate history right?

Hehe...

[elooocin]

I really wanted to have sex with Daveth as a lady... or something. His death was the much bigger shame here. Dang what a waste of perfectly good piece o' wood. :confused:

LOL I thought the same thing :X

 

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But my thoughts on the Jory thing ... I never liked him even in my first playthrough when I had no idea he would die. He was just so full of hot air, not to mention the reason he didn't want to do the joining was because 'there is no glory in this!' lol, idiot. He fought hard to be there, his own words, and was only in it so he could strut around like a proud rooster in a hen house!!! Idiot, fighting hard to be in a group of people that fight darkspawn and only get weepy over your wife and expectant baby when you get a little scared. If he really cared about them he would have stayed in his knighthood to fight alongside the arl instead of running off to start this new life!!!

 

ugh, jory.

 

The only time any of my various characters was shocked and/or upset by his death was my little goody-two-shoes I had once. Otherwise my characters have all realized (because they are smart cookies!) that being a Grey Warden means they do whatever it takes to defeat the darkspawn (how many FREAKING TIMES did Duncan say this in the game? IDIOT JORY!) and they certainly do not want wimpy men who say they will fight then change their mind in the end.

 

And I agree also with someone else who mentioned if Idiot Jory (that is his new name by the way, Idiot Jory) had been allowed to live he could have left and blabbed to everyone about the entire thing.

 

___

 

Bit off topic but about Awakening and the endless Joinings (god so many!) - You are at a Grey Warden base, correct? So isn't all things Grey Warden common knowledge there? I get that it's blabbed about a lot when it shouldn't be but at the same time this is the Warden base so it makes sense people would know. *shrugs*

[Utotri]

I don't know why people defend Duncan in this matter. It is murder, plain and simple. Some people speak of necessity. Why? It was not necessary for Duncan to kill Jory. He posed no real threat nor would it be a valid expectation that he would be a liability in the future. Making sure the Warden's secrets stay safe is pretty much a moot point. There is no reason for much secrecy at all anyway.

 

So now pretty much every single Warden I RP ends up resenting Duncan and thinking Al is a mincehead for revering Duncan. I was really happy when Cailan and Duncan perished in the massacre of Ostagar.

[SpellAndShield]

I don't know why people defend Duncan in this matter. It is murder, plain and simple. Some people speak of necessity. Why? It was not necessary for Duncan to kill Jory. He posed no real threat nor would it be a valid expectation that he would be a liability in the future. Making sure the Warden's secrets stay safe is pretty much a moot point. There is no reason for much secrecy at all anyway.

 

So now pretty much every single Warden I RP ends up resenting Duncan and thinking Al is a mincehead for revering Duncan. I was really happy when Cailan and Duncan perished in the massacre of Ostagar.

 

Al is a mincehead but we have already established that. :thumbsup:

[SaturnC]

Jory had to die cause his nose was just WAYYYY too big. :P

[brokenergy]

Well the reason he died is because...

 

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6148/motivatora2redshirt.jpg

[Utotri]

They are indeed classic redshirts. I love those. I like the one in the Cousland origin too. Deaths like that are both epic and mundane, a rare quality.

[riverdaleswhiteflash]

I don't know why people defend Duncan in this matter. It is murder, plain and simple. Some people speak of necessity. Why? It was not necessary for Duncan to kill Jory. He posed no real threat nor would it be a valid expectation that he would be a liability in the future. Making sure the Warden's secrets stay safe is pretty much a moot point. There is no reason for much secrecy at all anyway.

 

So now pretty much every single Warden I RP ends up resenting Duncan and thinking Al is a mincehead for revering Duncan. I was really happy when Cailan and Duncan perished in the massacre of Ostagar.

 

Jory had his sword out. I'm not absolutely sure about this one since it's been about a year since I last played that bit, but I seem to remember him drawing first. That alone justifies killing him, even if he wasn't technically a threat, and in some cultures that would probably be true even if he'd been disarmed or even dropped it before getting stabbed. (Jory lunged with his blade, and died still holding it. I don't think there's a single culture in the world that would call that murder. And yes, I do remember that detail well enough to say for sure.) As for that question, yes, he was a real threat. There are people in Thedas who can deal with getting stabbed, with or without magical aid. Duncan is not one of them, and his armor isn't the most protective variety available. Furthermore, there are limits on what healing magic can do in Thedas. They aren't hard and fast, but the big one seems to be that death is death, with about as much wiggle room on that subject as modern medicine with its "medically dead vs. brain dead." Make no mistake, there is wiggle room there, but not quite enough to help a patient under either system if they've taken a broadsword to the heart from someone who knows how to wield it competently.

 

As for a valid expectation that he would be a liability, I'm not entirely sure the Joining is legal. Blood magic is a big taboo, don't forget that. The mages are stated to know, and that probably means that some Chantry officials know. Those Chantry officials aren't doing anything about it, but that doesn't mean there aren't some who don't know, and who are only leaving the Wardens alone because they don't know. That's not to mention the peasants who might go after the Wardens with or without Chantry go-ahead if they knew. From what I recall, everyone who seems aware of the Joining's nature were reasonably well educated, and even the one with strong moral/letter-of-the-law leanings was not the sort to be a religious fanatic.

 

Oh, and everyone who strips them for their stuff? It appears in the inventory automatically. I checked. Not to say I don't sometimes strip them for comedy value, or equip Jory with Chasind robes so he's wearing a dress when he loses his nerve... I understand why he does it, but that doesn't mean I can't make fun of it.

 

By the same vein, I can understand a Warden resenting Duncan. I'm not sure how rational such resentment is, since in most cases thirty-years of lifespan is better than what they would have lived anyway, however I can see where dying at fifty might be rather a turn-off, and now they're stuck doing his job for him too. I will note that it is entirely rational for a Mage Warden who betrayed Jowan to be pissed off about being Shanghaied like this: (s)he's probably going to go back to the way things were, except that now (s)he doesn't have Jowan (whether that's a loss or a gain depends on the Warden in question) and now (s)he's considered an adult in his/her society. Being pulled away from that and out of the insular tower environment is a circumstance that a Warden could either be over the moon about or absolutely infuriated by, and never mind that (s)he cannot do anything to resist this. The shortened lifespan doesn't help, either.

[Alehazar]

Jory was warned, but in certain dialogue it is clear he believes that once the Blight is defeated he may/can return to his wife.

(PC: "So you abandoned her? Jory:"Never!") Yet "there is no turning back"! Anyone who becomes a Warden leaves his/her old life behind -permanently. But Jory was somehow convinced he would be able to return to his family. Surely Duncan should've picked up on that? It also seems apparent that he wanted to become a Warden for both glory and out of a sense of duty ("Ferelden needs my blade and I shall not falter").

When confronted by Morrigan Daveth lost his cool and was reduced to a scared little bunny, whereas Jory was too dense to really appreciate the situation. "Quiet Daveth. If she's really a witch do you want to make her mad? Flemeth's comment is far more prophetic than it appears: "There's a smart lad. (Is that sarcasm I hear?) Sadly irrelevant......."

When Jory drew his blade, he was slowly backing away, like he merely wanted to escape. Duncan drew his dagger and the duel became inevitable. Someone would die, and it was obvious whom that person was going to be.

While Daveth was able to see the bigger picture, his demise was another crack in Jory's crumbling veneer of knightly bravery, quickly unraveling his wavering resolve.

When the PC speaks to Jory before taking Alistair to Duncan, you can get a line that states you think that Jory is pretty dense. Which is true. Jory is unable to grasp what becoming a GW means to his life as a family man. As to why that idea persists in his mind and why nobody is setting him straight seems rather sloppy.

I can only ponder that Duncan -desperate for more Wardens- ignored his own better judgement.

 

As an aside: Alistair reveres Duncan and when you question Alistair at Ostagar about the Grey Wardens he clearly states that the GW's will do anything to win the fight (and that means some extreme measures). Yet when my GW is doing just that -any means to an end- almost everybody in my party (usually with the exceptions of Morrigan and Zevran)- disproves of my decisions and starts to second-guess my every choice. Meanwhile they all look to me to decide on the course of action.....

 

Furthermore I think that Duncan and Loghain share quite a lot of similarities: their "the end justifies the means" attitude, infers that they are willing to save their world by either destroying the enemy who poses a threat to it, or destroying their world themselves so it cannot fall into enemy hands.

For Duncan that is ending the Blight. For Loghain it is keeping out the Orlesians.

Duncan's tunnelvision keeps him from assessing Loghain's state of mind and perceiving a possible threat and thus a fatal flaw in the plans to defeat the Darkspawn; only when Cailan is crushed and the beacon is lit, the truth sinks in on why Loghain's troops aren't attacking.

Whereas Loghain's only concern is the possibility that the Orlesians will help them win the war. Regardless whether they would leave Ferelden or refuse to go back to Orlais once the Blight had been quelled. That has to be a death blow to his ego, his pride, his memories and whatnot.

Arl Eamon says in his address to the Landsmeet: "Must we destroy all that is good about our nation, in order to save it?"

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