Grey Warden Philosophy: Riordan's/Duncan's vs. Wynne+ others..

[SpellAndShield]

"We aren't judges. Kinslayers, blood mages, traitors, rebels, carta thugs, common bandits; Anyone with the skill and mettle to take up the sword against the darkspawn is welcome among us."

-Riordan

 

This kind of philosophy stands in stark contrast to the preachy Wynne and her take on the Wardens.

 

Are Wardens protectors of the good? or are they just darkspawn killers...?

[Thandal]

I agree that the moral/ethical behavior of the Wardens *apart* from opposing the Darkspawn is not made particularly clear in the DA narrative. My own interpretation is that they operate much like the "Crows" of the George R. R. Martin "Song of Fire and Ice" series. One might have been any sort of miserable scoundrel before joining, but once a member... the order polices its own, (and to a fairly high standard.)

 

One basis for my opinion is the apparent distaste with which Riordan relates the evolution of the Wardens of the Anderfels into what we might call "Lords Temporal", holding power directly. If the Wardens have "no opinion" about non-darkspawn issues, it wouldn't matter.

 

That said, I don't particuarly care to play the "self-serving" (if not exactly "evil") story-lines, so I don't know how actions along those lines might affect things in-game. Heck, I even went back and replayed part of DA:A because I accidently found my PC viewed as "one of those scum" when I helped the smugglers in Amaranthine (more by not deliberately fighting them than anything else.)

[RustyBlade]

My characters tend to take the moral high ground and as newbie wardens they haven't been ingrained with the "whatever it takes, whatever the cost" philosophy that the older wardens possess. They are going to win but there are some things they just won't do.

 

A leader leads by example not by force. - Sun Tzu

[SpellAndShield]

I agree that the moral/ethical behavior of the Wardens *apart* from opposing the Darkspawn is not made particularly clear in the DA narrative. My own interpretation is that they operate much like the "Crows" of the George R. R. Martin "Song of Fire and Ice" series. One might have been any sort of miserable scoundrel before joining, but once a member... the order polices its own, (and to a fairly high standard.)

 

One basis for my opinion is the apparent distaste with which Riordan relates the evolution of the Wardens of the Anderfels into what we might call "Lords Temporal", holding power directly. If the Wardens have "no opinion" about non-darkspawn issues, it wouldn't matter.

 

That said, I don't particuarly care to play the "self-serving" (if not exactly "evil") story-lines, so I don't know how actions along those lines might affect things in-game. Heck, I even went back and replayed part of DA:A because I accidently found my PC viewed as "one of those scum" when I helped the smugglers in Amaranthine (more by not deliberately fighting them than anything else.)

 

I forgot where I read it but I think Bioware said DA was inspired in part by Song of Ice and Fire...

[DarkeWolf]

Ugh. You guys need to put discussions like this in the Spoilers forums. Spoiler tags suck.

 

wynn is trying to mold you into the kind of leader that SHE thinks is right. Morrigan even comments about it in banters, when Wynn confronts her about using the Warden, and trying to manipulate him/her.

 

 

The wardens take any able bodied man/woman that they can find that has the potential to survive the Joining. This could be the noblest of knights, it could be the lowest dregs of society. War and survival take no bigotry against race, gender, caste, or personal history. They need soldiers and will take what they can get. Because the end cause justifies that means.

 

I do, however, believe that in some cases, they PREFER to choose those that "wouldnt be greatly missed".

I mean, if you gotta choose somebody who may have to die to kill an archdemon, do you wanna sacrifice an arle, bann, or other noble? Or somebody that has great political or public clout, affect on politics?

 

 

The wardens DO ingrain their recruits with a high sense of duty, and to the cause for which they serve. To prevent, or end blights. To sacrifice in order to reach that goal.

Its as the Warden Commander in The Calling novel says. "We are Wardens. We make the hard choices so that others do not. We sacrifice, so that others do not." Each and every warden lives and dies, to destroy dark spawn. Beyond that, they are each as individual with their own personality types as you and I :wink:

[SpellAndShield]

Ugh. You guys need to put discussions like this in the Spoilers forums. Spoiler tags suck.

 

wynn is trying to mold you into the kind of leader that SHE thinks is right. Morrigan even comments about it in banters, when Wynn confronts her about using the Warden, and trying to manipulate him/her.

 

 

The wardens take any able bodied man/woman that they can find that has the potential to survive the Joining. This could be the noblest of knights, it could be the lowest dregs of society. War and survival take no bigotry against race, gender, caste, or personal history. They need soldiers and will take what they can get. Because the end cause justifies that means.

 

I do, however, believe that in some cases, they PREFER to choose those that "wouldnt be greatly missed".

I mean, if you gotta choose somebody who may have to die to kill an archdemon, do you wanna sacrifice an arle, bann, or other noble? Or somebody that has great political or public clout, affect on politics?

 

 

The wardens DO ingrain their recruits with a high sense of duty, and to the cause for which they serve. To prevent, or end blights. To sacrifice in order to reach that goal.

Its as the Warden Commander in The Calling novel says. "We are Wardens. We make the hard choices so that others do not. We sacrifice, so that others do not." Each and every warden lives and dies, to destroy dark spawn. Beyond that, they are each as individual with their own personality types as you and I :wink:

 

There is Wynn vs. Morrigan banter? I have never heard it...can you please post a link maybe?

[Thandal]

There is Wynn vs. Morrigan banter? I have never heard it...can you please post a link maybe?

 

(Ummm... not sure how to create a "link" to a "Party Banter Trigger", much less to a specific one...)

 

But on the topic of the thread: I think the original question was not so much "What kind of person will/do the Wardens recruit?" We're all agreed that they'll take any and all. The question is, "How should/must one behave AFTER becoming a Warden?"

 

Are there "rules"? If so, what are they? Who enforces them? If not, then it seems unlikely society would accord them any particular stature. Hard to keep people's respect through the centuries between Blights if you're seen as "As bad as the rest of 'em." Only a few rotten apples would spoil the reputation of all.

[OldBook3]

The books imply some standards Wardens are held to once recruited (see Duncan's dialogs with his mentor)(trying to stay spoiler free), but those are mostly "Duty above all; do nothing that might interfere with your job; do whatever you must to get the job done."

 

I'd say the Wardens want/expect eachother to keep up a public face of being "Good" and "Honorable", because being known as a slimy criminal or political animal can make the job harder. If you have to steal or murder or make (or betray) political alliances to stand against the Blight, you're expected to do so; you're also expected not to get caught, and to obey the law of the land and stay out of politics until your duty demands otherwise. Wardens protect oneanother, and bow to no other power, but getting the order kicked out of a city, country or region becauase you can't put your duty first is the worst kind of failure.

 

Some of this is self enforcing. A Warden can't be primarily concerned with anything but the Blight and the Darkspawn long term; the Taint will see to that. Sooner or later (except in rare circumstances) you'll hear the Calling, and you'll have no choice except to seek out the Darkspawn.

 

Wynne is preachy, but she's not a Warden. She only knows the public image the Wardens work to promote. She also wants you to be a Good person and an example to others, especially if you're a Mage. You never really get mentored by an actual Warden outside of your early conversations with Duncan.

 

This should probably be in the spoilers section. It's hard to discuss without pointing to examples in the game and books. :)

[DarkeWolf]

Stardust- I can, right off the bat that link you to a page that has them in text. I mean, I've seen the dialogs in game, by bridge running. But you might be able to find vids of it on youtube.

the page it located here- http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Morrigan%27s_Dialogue you have to scroll waaaaaaaaay down the page to find it. In the Morrigan and Wynn section.

 

Morrigan: You do not approve of me, do you?

Wynne: You have to ask? I didn't realize I was being subtle.

Morrigan: Ah, the old cat still has her claws, I see. And you also do not approve of my involvement with our stalwart Grey Warden.

Wynne: You are dangerous, Morrigan. Dangerous, cunning and thoroughly deceitful. But you are beautiful, and he is young. It's a pity he doesn't know any better.

Morrigan: Why, Wynne, I do believe that is the first time you have ever offered a compliment. Thank you.

Wynne: Only you would take that as a compliment.

Morrigan: Listen, old woman. what happens between myself and him is not your concern. You can approve or not approve as you wish, but this is one thing you cannot influence and mould to your liking.

Wynne: So you say. I do hope that one day soon you will discover that neither is he.

Morrigan: You mistake my intent, old cat. And you are a fool.

Wynne: Am I? Well, let's hope so.

I really wish that I could use bold or color tags in the spoilers, so that I could highlight the line she's talking about.

 

Also, to get banters in game, the most common method is by a method called bridge running. Many of the party banter triggers are in the middle of bridges. You just find a bridge (like the one outside the Proving in Orzammar) run across it, listen to the banter, do an area transition, (like enter the proving grounds) come back out and run across the bridge again. Rinse and repeat.

There's also a mod that can force party banters, called the Mighty Squirrel (odd mod, I must say....) tho I find it really lags my system, so I dont play with it very often.

[Edit- nevermind on that. they took it down :sad: [/edit]

[roninsoul7]

Grey Wardens are soldiers in an ongoing war with the dark spawn. Good, evil, indifference have no place in the life of a soldier. They kill their enemies, and rest until they find more enemies to kill. Wynne's philosphy of a "Good" soldier is flawed, as a good soldier is the one who kills enemies and survives to do it again the next day until the war is won.