Saving game = CTD

[zurx]

Man this is a hard topic to start new. I've been seeking help for this problem for about a week now on another forum and was just met with "I don't know"s and silence. So, I'll try to be brief in what I've already done.

 

When I try to save my game, it crashes. The saves it makes then are not corrupt and will load, I just can't save again.

 

I went ahead and opened Wrye Bash, just to see what things looked like there, and I had warnings all over the place. Mods shared the same load orders, had the same modified dates and times, and several esp files had apparent erroneous master lists. My saves tab was also a mess. Everything was orange, indicating the save's master lists didn't match the load order. Well, after MANY hours and days of working on this, I came to find out that Wrye Bash does things in its own way. And after modifying everything I eventually got everything on the mods tab green, and ever a purple save. At this point my game would crash on the first loading screen. Eventually I found this was due to my rearranging an esp's master list to what WB thought it should be. I found this out by lots of reorganizing of my load order, and then the classic process of elimination: disabling everything and loading the game, then re-enabling one after another after another. So, I've already gone through a rather tumultuous nightmare trying to fix this on my own, getting zero help from what I thought was the best Oblivion forum available.

 

So anyway, after all that, I can load my game again, and get back into my save, but I can't save. I'm back at square one after being in the depths of user error and confusion with a program I'd rather not use anyway. So I'm putting out the distress signal here. I sincerely hope someone is willing to help me here because I'm truly stumped now.

[Raivissss]

You may want to check this out. http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22282 But it requires OBSE. If you have this already and it's not solving your problem, I'm out of ideas. If this helps - great success!

[Foggl]

You could try saving via the console. I don't know if that'll make any difference, but it's worth a try.

[bben46]

There may be something in this that will help

Here is a link to Bben's Crash Help

http://www.tesnexus....cle.php?id=298.

[zurx]

I am VERY thankful for the help I've already received here. However, I think it's time to give some more information. So, here's my load order, and a list of utilities and plugins I'm currently using.

 

Load Order (as of 05-01-2010)

Oblivion.esm

GTAesgaard_2.esm

Windfall.esm

Jog_X_Mod.esm

Cobl Main.esm

CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm

*DremoraCompanion.esm

CURP_Controller.esm

*TantrivayliaChimer.esm

CM Partners.esm

HorseCombatMaster.esm

Hermaeus Mora Daedric Quest Fix.esp

DLCShiveringIsles.esp

Atmospheric Loading Screens - Random Quotes.esp

Book Jackets Oblivion.esp

Oblivion Collectible Cards.esp

Reznod_Mannequin.esp

Harvest[Containers].esp

Harvest[Containers] - Player Home Add-on.esp

DLCOrrery.esp

DLCVileLair.esp

DLCMehrunesRazor.esp

DLCSpellTomes.esp

MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp

*Dreadweave Complete_Heavy.esp

Dreadweave Complete_Light.esp

Lich King's Helm v1_0.esp

New Frostmourne Sword by Jojjo v1_0.esp

PTArtifacts.esp

Sauron_Armor_Chest.esp

Skooma_Water_Pipe.esp

SkoomaPipeMod.esp

Slof's Boners! v5.esp

Slof's Giger Armour.esp

DLCThievesDen.esp

ExnemRuneskulls.esp

KvatchAftermath.esp

Ivellon.esp

Amajor7 Imperial Furniture.esp

Armageddon.esp

Artefacts of the Ancestors.esp

FuseSnailRacing.esp

GTAesgaard.esp

GTAesgaard_2.esp

Gates To Aesgaard 2 Delayer.esp

HeartoftheDead.esp

JQ-AssassinQuest.esp

kingdomofAlmar.esp

Kragenir's Death Quest.esp

KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp

300 Feudal Empire.esp

Kragenirs_WhiteStallion_Compat.esp

EiAmod.esp

Bravil Barrowfields.

EiAmod_ShiveringIsles.esp

M.O.E. - Tools of Kagrenac - The Secret of White Gold Tower.esp

Museum.esp

Return Of Shadows.esp

ScarletMonastery.esp

*Servant of the Dawn.esp

*Tantrivaylia.esp

*The Ayleid Steps.esp

The Black Cat Jewelry Store - Daedric Statues.esp

TheElderCouncil.esp

TheElderCouncil_TempleOfTheOne.esp

thievery.esp

Windfall.esp

DLCFrostcrag.esp

Knights.esp

TOTF.esp

TOTF-EiAE Patch.esp

The Lost Spires.esp

AFK_Weye.esp

Origin of the Mages Guild.esp

TheNecromancer.esp

MannimarcoComplete.esp

Castle_Almgard-V2.esp

bartholm.esp

*CUO_Chorrol.esp

Harvest [Flora].esp

Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp

Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp

Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp

AutoBookPlacer.esp

CUO_Dwemer.esp

CUO_FightersGuildContracts_SAFE.esp

CUO_MerchantUpdate_SAFE.esp

CUO_UnLeveledPotions.esp

CUO_NewFactionDialog_SAFE.esp

CUO_BadGuy_Specific_Loot_DIRTY.esp

CUO_UnleveledGuards&Legioneers_DIRTY.esp

CUO_UnleveledNpcs&Creatures.esp

CUO_UnLeveledLoot.esp

CUO_UnLeveledVendors.esp

DecoratorAssistant with OBSE v1.1.esp

M.O.E. - Lycanthropy and Lichcraft.esp

P1DkeyChain.esp

Quest Award Leveling.esp

Quest Award Leveling - Finger of the Mountain.esp

M.O.E. - Vampire Clan Raelu.esp

RefScope.esp

MidasSpells.esp

CombatFPSOptimizer.esp

Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block with no damage or durability changes.esp

DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp

*DremoraCompanion.esp

---

Benirus Lair.esp

Miniature Necromancy Revised.esp

TEC_4ERA_Dialog_Filter.esp

Improved Skooma Lab.esp

*CUO_Spells_DIRTY.esp

 

* = Mod installed but NOT activated for various reasons.

 

NOTE: The last 5 mods listed are not recognized by BOSS, and without knowing any better or different I have left them at the bottom. Also - I am not using any Bashed Patches of any kind due to my supreme dislike of Wrye Bash.

 

Utilities and Plugins:

OBMM - v1.1.12

OBSE - v0018 b6

Wrye Bash - v2.75

OCPS (Oblivion Crash Prevention System) - Build 2009-03-28 (OBSE Plugin)

OSR (Oblivion Stutter Remover) - v.4.1.0.0 (OBSE Plugin)

Elys Universal Silent Voice - v0.93 (OBSE Plugin)

Elys Uncaper - v0.96 (OBSE Plugin)

Fast Exit 2 - v2.0 (OBSE Plugin)

Operation Optimization - v1.1.1

Combat FPS Optimizer - v1.0

 

TO MY KNOWLEDGE NONE OF THESE MODS EDIT THE SAME CELLS OR OBJECTS, AND THE ONLY OVERHAUL I RUN IS CUO WHICH IS THE CLEANEST AND MOST COMPATIBLE OF THEM ALL.

[chaospearl]

Couple of questions... if you load your game without any of the mods, does the save crash still happen? And if not, at what point in activating mods one by one does it start to occur? I'm a little confused because it seems like this MUST be a mod issue of some sort, and if you've already been through the agonizing process of killing all your mods and then re-installing them one... by... one... then surely you already figured out which mod or mod combo is causing it. If it still happens with no mods loaded, I'd suggest reinstalling Oblivion from the CD. In some cases that's like shooting ants with a bazooka but it has worked for me when nothing else did. And if it doesn't happen with no mods loaded, but starts happening only after you begin reinstalling mods, then whichever mod you put back just before the crash bug reoccured is your culprit. It may not be that particular mod in itself but rather a conflict between it and another mod.

 

Also, this may sound dumb, but it'll take only a few minutes so you may as well. Have you read through the log that BOSS creates when you run it? Sometimes if you're running two or more mods that shouldn't be run together regardless of load order, BOSS will tell you that in the little blurb in the log it generates, but it won't deactivate the mods for you. I found that reading the log gave me invaluable info about conflicts I hadn't even been aware of.

 

And one more question, sorry. Does this happen when using quicksave, or only when opening the save \ load \ quit menu with the Esc key? I wonder if trying an autosave program might work. I play Oblivion on a low end laptop so I CTD all the time and I use a mod that saves every 5 minutes automatically so I don't end up wanting to commit suicide if I CTD after having forgotten to save after completing something particularly noxious. If it crashes on quicksave then it's not likely autosave will work, but it is worth a shot, I believe, just in case. I'm a believer in trying all the easy-but-unlikely solutions first just to be sure they don't work before I pull out the big guns.

[zurx]

Couple of questions... if you load your game without any of the mods, does the save crash still happen? And if not, at what point in activating mods one by one does it start to occur? I'm a little confused because it seems like this MUST be a mod issue of some sort, and if you've already been through the agonizing process of killing all your mods and then re-installing them one... by... one... then surely you already figured out which mod or mod combo is causing it. If it still happens with no mods loaded, I'd suggest reinstalling Oblivion from the CD. In some cases that's like shooting ants with a bazooka but it has worked for me when nothing else did. And if it doesn't happen with no mods loaded, but starts happening only after you begin reinstalling mods, then whichever mod you put back just before the crash bug reoccured is your culprit. It may not be that particular mod in itself but rather a conflict between it and another mod.

 

Also, this may sound dumb, but it'll take only a few minutes so you may as well. Have you read through the log that BOSS creates when you run it? Sometimes if you're running two or more mods that shouldn't be run together regardless of load order, BOSS will tell you that in the little blurb in the log it generates, but it won't deactivate the mods for you. I found that reading the log gave me invaluable info about conflicts I hadn't even been aware of.

 

And one more question, sorry. Does this happen when using quicksave, or only when opening the save \ load \ quit menu with the Esc key? I wonder if trying an autosave program might work. I play Oblivion on a low end laptop so I CTD all the time and I use a mod that saves every 5 minutes automatically so I don't end up wanting to commit suicide if I CTD after having forgotten to save after completing something particularly noxious. If it crashes on quicksave then it's not likely autosave will work, but it is worth a shot, I believe, just in case. I'm a believer in trying all the easy-but-unlikely solutions first just to be sure they don't work before I pull out the big guns.

 

1. Deactivating everything except Oblivion brought my game back to life just fine. Early on, I found part of the problem - Kvatch Aftermath. This stemmed from a change I made to this esp in Wrye Bash. For some reason, Wrye Bash was telling me its load order was not right, so I changed the mod's master list to have CURP_Controller load before CURP (opposite of what I'd originally done) and this allowed my game to once again load. I slowly then re-activated the rest of my mods and eventually had everything going again. And after almost a week of hell finally arrived back at square 1 - being unable to save.

 

2. Regarding BOSS - I run it after every new mod I install, and I *ALWAYS* check the log afterwards. For any conflicts, advice on upgrades, and the like. I never once saw anything about mods I had conflicting. There were warnings that some of my mods would conflict with others, but these were mods I do not have.

 

3. The saving problem happened when I would quicksave, autosave, or do a full save. I turned off autosave, which is something everyone should do anyway, but it didn't make a difference.

 

Eventually, after this absolutely awful experience, I believe I have solved it. And the solution makes me feel even more stupid than any the rest of this, and I regret even going to any forum to begin with. But, now it's become a learning experience that others can share. And also hopefully learn the dangers of following Wrye Bash's advice. The newest mod I'd installed, "AFK_Weye" was the problem. However, it took me a long time to see this because I'd been trying to play through the mod, and was kind of in the middle of it when this started happening. I had no reason to believe it was this mod other than thats when I started having the problem. I didn't want it to be that mod because I really liked it. But no mod is worth sacrificing your entire game. Anyway. Simple deactivating AFK_Weye in my load order allowed me to once again have a CTD-free game, and allow me to save in any which way I choose. I have brought the matter to the attention of the author of AFK_Weye and perhaps it will be looked in to. I didn't think for a second it conflicted with anything of mine (the mod comes HIGHLY recommended), but it must have. With what, I'll probably never know. I really wish there was a way to figure that out more easily. Life goes on.

 

I will close with a rule of thumb every player who uses mods should follow. If two mods conflict, then you CAN'T HAVE THEM BOTH! Using Wrye Bash will only create more problems. There's a reason the game crashes. It's usually for the better anyway. If you have to make a patch to get a mod to work, remember that by doing this you're breaking something else. Same goes for load order. If a mod insists that it be run in a very specific order in relation to other mods, beware. I'll leave it at that as I don't want to plagiarize at all, these words of wisdom that have been imparted on me from my favorite mod author out there.

 

Chaospearl - thank you for your interest in helping me, it's deeply appreciated. It's good to know I can receive good support on this forum. With the type of comments I usually see on mods from TES, my hopes were not high.

[chaospearl]

Congrats on finally achieving success, though I'm sorry to hear it came at the expense of sacrificing a favorite mod. Maybe the creator of AFK_Weye will be able to sort out the issue quicklike and you'll have your mod back soon. One never knows!

 

I have recieved invaluable assistance here on the Nexus from other more experienced folks, and I continue to receive it -- in fact the post I wrote just before this one was to thank a couple of kind souls for solving a vexing normal map issue for me, just a couple of topics below this one. So I'm always happy to offer what little knowledge I have to anyone else. Besides, it makes me feel useful around here, a bit like giving something back in return for all the advice I've gotten... okay, that and every time I'm able to solve someone else's problem, I feel slightly less dumb about the questions I still have to ask sometimes!

 

 

If two mods conflict, then you CAN'T HAVE THEM BOTH!

 

As for this, weeeeeeell, it depends on the type of conflict. Stuff like you described where AFK_Weye is causing savegame CTDs and you can't figure out what the hell it's conflicting with, then yeah, unfortunately in those cases you have to make a tough choice.

 

That being said, if the conflict is more along the lines of multiple mods battling it out for the same cell or altering the same NPC, that sort of conflict can often be solved by judicious application of the Construction Set. I fell in love with the Waterfront Trading HQ mod, but to my vexation it puts a door to a shop right in the exact same position that the Gold Horse Courier office from another mod is located. I wanted to keep both and I don't like being told no, lol. So... I opened up the CS, picked up the door to the courier office and moved it around the corner. Problem solved. Okay, perhaps not as simple as I'm making it sound; in order to create a suitable place for a new door you often have to do some creative architecture renovating (at least, if you want the placement to look natural and not just like you stuck a door onto the side of a building Portable Hole-style) but this was the first time I'd ever even used the render window (which is a stone female dog to learn) and I managed to successfully relocate the office after about four or five hours of cursing and re-doing. With the CS experience I have now, only two weeks later, I could probably do it in forty minutes... depending on my supply of coffee.

 

And that's just simple stuff, object placement. If two mods use the same worldspace, you just move the stuff from one of them to a nearby location. In some cases it's only a matter of shoving a building back a few feet so it doesn't have an apple tree coming out of its windows (ahem, Qarl's Harvest and Oblivion Collectible Cards, I'm looking at you). But some conflicts are a bit dicier to resolve. If you're a programming type (or just a quick learner) you can mesh together conflicting scripts, so if you've got two mods that want to modify the same object or actor, it's possible to create a single script that performs both functions so that you don't have to choose one or the other.

 

Mind you, I'm not arguing with the general principle that sometimes you simply cannot have it all... just sayin' that by learning to use the Construction Set, there will be far fewer instances when a choice must be made. Good luck with AFK_Weye and I'm glad to hear you've got your game back!

[Clasm]

Hello there. I have had similar expeirences and can only say a few things relivant to this discussion.

1 mods are by nature anti-get along. The only mods that never have issues are the ones that never enocounter one another.

2 downloading 4 seperate files in what (i pray) is the right order and then hopeing the meshes and textures all blend well and then reoragising them as I unzipp and then transfering to data without a single missed Rclick or spelling error is an insane way to do programs. There has to be a better way.

3Wyrebash is far overly complicated and I cant get anything done except find out what it is tellingmeis a fault, (frans items and critter expansion is in the worng load order with frans item and critter esm, fair enough and easy to fix except the latter is also in the wrong load order with the former,..WTF?!?!)

4BSA is a huge help and God bless the creator of this.

5 a nice armour set needs exnems mod and eyes and hair 4 other mods, these confilct with two mods I have , there is a patch mod, the patch mod requires 2 other downloads,

thus,to get one thing I desire I need 8+ downloads allin the correct order and unzipped together correctly then transfered and plugged in also in the correct order.

 

Can we not just build mods in packs? If it requires 4 other mods then why cant you include these in the patch?

I see a world where we choose 1-2 packs of mods and not 87 downloads then try to make those all cooperate.

The best mnodders out there can and will make this happen.

Feel free to rail at me and call me plently of names, I do intend not to derail anyones hard work and long hours, If I didnt value your work I would never take the time to offer ways to improove. My aim is only to mkae wyrebash ect,..uneeded. Make mods easy and fun, not laborious and langvalichg.