spoiler What is your opinion of the Chantry...

[CrapsterZ]

I really enjoy seeing the similarities between our world and Thedas. The fact that it is similar yet different offers insights into our past. I wouldn't be surprised to see a sort of reformed chantry emerge maybe a couple hundred years down the road, perhaps with a Leliana like perspective instead of the authoritarian chantry that for the most part is interested in gaining power.

 

 

Maybe but we all know that Leliana is talking out of her arse; the Spirit Guardian called her on it too...

Is it wrong how much I enjoyed hearing the Guardian do that? Don't get me wrong, I like Leliana and think she is great, but sometimes I just roll my eyes at her when she goes on and on! But I think, with her at least, she really was trying to change her life and be a 'better person', it's just that she really couldn't change completely deep down even if she was trying to tell herself otherwise. My thoughts on that anyway! But yeah, I do agree that her ideas of the Chantry are way better than the Chantry itself! She is more like ... the um ... what do you call it people ... gosh I'm blank! But you know the churches that have every kind of people from tattoed up to gay and no one thinks anything of it, just fully accepting and usually have really loud and wild services.

 

... gosh I am so blank on what I heard someone call them once! But anyway, that is how I see Leliana's views on how things should be, just with a medieval twist!

 

I believe you're referring to Charismatic churches. And it's not that no one thinks anything of them, it's just that Christianity is about loving the sinner and hating the sin, exemplified by Jesus during his life (dining with tax collectors and talking to prostitutes, etc). There's this quote that says "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car." This is what Leliana (despite being totally wrong about her 'vision') represents - the idea of the New Testament in the Bible, that God loved mankind even despite our sins and sent Jesus His Son (in DA, mirrored by Andraste, who is called the Bride of the Maker) to die for us on the cross (Andraste's death by fire) while the Chantry represents the Pharisees who thought themselves "superior" because they thought their actions and deeds made them holy (similar to how Leliana describes some of the Chanters about them living in the Maker's sight.) as well as the Catholic church in medieval times (and yes, the judgmental "holier-than-thou" people who claim to be Christians, as a Christian myself, I find these people absolutely hypocritical as well)

 

It is also interesting to note that debate as to whether Andraste was really the Bride of the Maker or just a really powerful mage is also similar to debates to Jesus' divinity in the early ages of Christianity and also the difference between Islam (which says Jesus was a prophet) and Christianity.

 

I'd advise against using the Chantry as the exact representation of Christianity though. Keep in mind that this is an RPG and there will always be critical differences between Thedas and Earth :)

 

That said, the Chantry does provide an interesting element to the game and certainly adds flavor to the lore of Dragon Age. Annoying as some of the Chanters are, it's really amusing personally for me to go antagonize them (getting them to slip up and NOT quote the Chant of Light at me for once. Heh.)

[raistlin167]

Here is the deal....As I see only divine powers are templar ones which is magic and arcane core. Also as famous divine spells such as resurrection and heal either came from fade or same deal as templars arcane powers. So I am wondering if there is any divine powers at all? Also if there is a Maker and Golden City why no one in the fade speaks about them at all? Chantry is a Lie. Blood magic is the true divine way people! xD

[RustyBlade]

There is no more golden city, only the black one; stupid blood mages went and screwed it up for everyone :rolleyes: Blood magic is a bane to the existence of all people of all races, I treat them like darkspawn and kill every one I encounter. As for the existence of the maker, you can't really blame the guy for not sticking around after they went and ruined his home. He may very well be dead. As for whether the chantry is lying or not, there is no proof either way so either side of the argument is pure speculation. :yes: :no:

[SpellAndShield]

I reckon that 75% of the Chantry sputum is mythology and I agree with Morrigan's perspective on the Maker when she debates Leliana. Andraste was almost certainly some kind of special mage; a very powerful one.

[raistlin167]

There is no more golden city, only the black one; stupid blood mages went and screwed it up for everyone :rolleyes: Blood magic is a bane to the existence of all people of all races, I treat them like darkspawn and kill every one I encounter. As for the existence of the maker, you can't really blame the guy for not sticking around after they went and ruined his home. He may very well be dead. As for whether the chantry is lying or not, there is no proof either way so either side of the argument is pure speculation. :yes: :no:

 

Yea blood mages are big bad wolfs. Its not what I am talking about. Im talking about bull`s strengh or aid or cure light wounds stuff. Where is the divine! My fav of all times is a cleric...but alas I have to roll a mage

[SpellAndShield]

There is no more golden city, only the black one; stupid blood mages went and screwed it up for everyone :rolleyes: Blood magic is a bane to the existence of all people of all races, I treat them like darkspawn and kill every one I encounter. As for the existence of the maker, you can't really blame the guy for not sticking around after they went and ruined his home. He may very well be dead. As for whether the chantry is lying or not, there is no proof either way so either side of the argument is pure speculation. :yes: :no:

 

I doubt the Chantry is lying. I am sure most believe their own claptrap about Tevinter Mages usurping heaven, blah blah blah. This is clearly an allegory, at best. The black city/gold city likely never existed.

 

Now, it may be that SOME mages were responsible for the darkspawn. Perhaps they performed forbidden rites that went awry, who knows? But it is in the interest of the cult of Andraste and the Maker to claim that the Tevinter mages were the ones responsible since the prophet of the cult was opposed to them...future DA products should shed some light on the true origins...

[RustyBlade]

If the black city never existed, what is that thing floating around in the fade?

 

@ raistlin167: there is a mod for adding a cleric class character to your game http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=374 I can't comment on how well it works as I don't use it but you might want to give it a try

[Dileos]

If the black city never existed, what is that thing floating around in the fade?

 

@ raistlin167: there is a mod for adding a cleric class character to your game http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=374 I can't comment on how well it works as I don't use it but you might want to give it a try

 

Honestly its quite hard to tell the alleged "Golden/Black City" from the other 3 HUGE floating rocks in the fade. Nothing resembles buildings to any extent, the only thing that strikes me as odd is the huge sloping point that one of them comes too. To me it looks like the front of one the old WW2 battleships, not like god's magical floating house. If anything the Chantry is similar to (in my opinion) most world religions: 97% mythology and folklore that society can't let go of, and 3% that may have actually happened.

 

There's no doubting that Andraste existed, and that she did many great things, beyond that however... Next time you do the Urn of Sacred Ashes, take Ohgren along. His explanation of the healing properties of the ashes and the spirits inside the temple is quite good actually. The high lyrium content in the walls is causing physics inside the temple to go haywire, showing another contrast between our world and Thedas. The battle between science and religion.

[danscott84]

I reckon that 75% of the Chantry sputum is mythology and I agree with Morrigan's perspective on the Maker when she debates Leliana. Andraste was almost certainly some kind of special mage; a very powerful one.

 

If you take Oghren with you on the Sacred Ashes quest, he confirms this. When you reach the urn, some are in awe of it, some unimpressed, but Oghren comes right out and says the whole mountain is teaming with lyrium. To quote:

" The lyrium veins in these walls are richer and purer than any I've sensed in a while. It's doing things...changing this temple and everything in it."

[danscott84]

Now to add my views of the chantry. There are set up in the game as a parallel to the Catholoc church after the fall of the Roman Empire. Even their "exalted marches" are reminiscient of the crusades to the Holy Land. If you believe in their teachings, all is good for you, and if you do not, then you are basically lost to them. It's also a matter of control. Control of the lyrium on the surface, the mages, the templars, and even governments. (Revered mother presiding over the coronation in the epilogue) And as with any religion is open to abuse and misintepretation (followers of Andraste). I won't go into the merits of whether they are right or not, I don't like to do this in real life either (never discuss politics or religion), but in the facet of the game they are the basic ruling body of Thedas. There is even a hint to a schism in the current timeline of the game as happened with the Tevinter Chantry. People like Leliana ( I like her, what can I say ) begin the small underpinnings of a greater feeling not voiced. Perhaps not her, but I would suspect another (hopefully in future releases of the game) will start a sort of protestant revolution similar to Martin Luther, possibly not only causing a major religious war, but would be interesting if it times in with another blight making the people really challenge not their belief system, but the leaders of their religion.