spoiler The Truth about Alistair...

[SpellAndShield]

Sometimes Alistair is a selfish whinger; all he does is complain, about everything!

 

1. Not being in the battle at Ostagar, despite being given an important task!

 

2. Being left all alone; woe is me, I am the only one who suffers!

 

3. Acts as if he were the only person ever to lose someone they cared about a la Duncan!

 

4. Moralising and judgemental, yet too cowardly to take up the lead himself!

 

5. Selfish; willing to put his own thirst for revenge over the good of the land!

 

6. Childish; if Loghain is in, I am out, nahahnanana!

 

7. A heartbreaker and a racist; he cannot stand by the convictions of his alleged feelings and marry a non-human without a mod!

 

PS, I am only partially serious...

[andreweve1]

Haha yeah he is a bit of a whinger. Sometimes I wanna slap him in the face and yell "Get it together man!", or just plain old "quit ya whinging, female dog."

 

Though, I wouldn't say the Loghain bit is childish. I wouldn't stick around with Loghain in the group either, he is the bad guy after all. Having him become a Grey Warden would be like having Hitler join the the group from Inglourious basterds.

[SpellAndShield]

Haha yeah he is a bit of a whinger. Sometimes I wanna slap him in the face and yell "Get it together man!", or just plain old "quit ya whinging, female dog."

 

Though, I wouldn't say the Loghain bit is childish. I wouldn't stick around with Loghain in the group either, he is the bad guy after all. Having him become a Grey Warden would be like having Hitler join the the group from Inglourious basterds.

 

They both have their faults but regardless of how wrong he may have been; Loghain is a man, whereas Alistair is just a boy...

[elooocin]

You are totally on the I-Love-Loghain-So-Everyone-Needs-To train aren't you? LOL! My best friend is a huge Loghain lover from reading the books and even she has trouble with him in Origins no matter her love of him (and the non stop desire for Maric+Loghain but that is a whooooole other topic!). So gosh, don't hate on Alistair now! :sad:

 

:laugh:

 

Anyway, I will defend Alistair in steps as you assaulted him :ohmy:

1. Not being in the battle at Ostagar, despite being given an important task!

Only my super sweet goody goody character did not question the fact two Grey Wardens were being sent up a tower to do nothing but light a fire. I mean, come on, who wouldn't say "Why can't I join the battle?" in that circumstance? The Wardens are just a base level soldier in the army but on a higher level than that compared to everyone else - so it was odd that they would send two though what everyone believed was an empty tower to light the beacan. Also, Alistair says in a dialogue later that Duncan purposely kept him out of all fighting because he knew he was Maric's son. So he was starting to get miffed about being pushed to the sidelines in every single battle they fought, and if you were a warrior wouldn't that annoy you?

 

2. Being left all alone; woe is me, I am the only one who suffers!

He alone, including you, are the only Wardens left in Ferelden. It's like ... for lack of anything else to compare it with in my hungry brain I will say compare it to your church or school. Sure the people in your church/school are not your blood relatives but you get to know them and care for them no matter if you are buddy-buddy with everyone. So how would you react if everyone was killed? Wouldn't you be in a horror of shock and weep for being the only one remaining out of everyone? Wouldn't you be like, "Why? Why me? Why am I the only one left?"

 

3. Acts as if he were the only person ever to lose someone they cared about a la Duncan!

Duncan was like a father to Alistair. If your father, who you loved and respected, died wouldn't you feel as though no one else understands your pain and sorrow? And Alistair recognizes and admits that he shouldn't feel this way to my Warden, especially my human noble one when they talk about it. His life was filled with a search for acceptance and a family, he was denied that because of his birth and shipped away from the Arl just when he thought he found a home. And finally believing after all these years he once again found a place to call home with people who cared for him it was all, again, ripped away. Hell, Alistair is very strong to deal with all that.

 

4. Moralising and judgemental, yet too cowardly to take up the lead himself!

Coward? Really? :lol: Because naturally a coward runs into battles ready to kill everything in sight and offers up himself to be sacrificed in the final battle. Gosh, Alistair, hdu be a chicken! As for his morality, I never judge anyone for their own personal beliefs as long as they are not on my case about it. And he never holds that over the Warden's head, even my evil one who poured blood on Andraste's ashes and did a hell of a lot of other horrible unspeakable things during their time together. Plus, you have to realize he was sent off to be a Templar and studied religion non-stop, he is a religious guy and I can't fault him for that any more than you can fault someone for not believing at all. PLUS, lol, not wanting to lead does not equal a coward! For an in game reference take Wynne, at the end of the game she is offered First Enchanters job yet turns it down. That old bat, who I don't even care for all that much (talk about moralising and judgemental!), is definitely not a coward yet she has no desire to lead. Some people just do not want the job, it in no way means they are cowards.

 

5. Selfish; willing to put his own thirst for revenge over the good of the land!

Puhlease! Go back and read all the stuff in the Loghhain thread about why that man should be put to death, lulz.

 

6. Childish; if Loghain is in, I am out, nahahnanana!

Probably at least 90% of all people who play this game are childish because if they were in Alistair's shoes I'm sure they would feel the same way. if the game had a twist where everyone would want Loghain and was against my character then hell yes he/she would walk out after all that man id to them. Rawr. But, I have to say, that Alistair has an amazing sense of humor and therefore is a bit childish/blows over things with humor - and that is one of my favorite things about him! Plus he collects action figures - very nerdy and awesome in my book! *wiggles*

 

7. A heartbreaker and a racist; he cannot stand by the convictions of his alleged feelings and marry a non-human without a mod!

Lordy, racist? Gosh now. If he were that he would never start a romance with your elf/dwarf to begin with. And it is not him that will not allow it, but the country. And it really has nothing to do with him but with the country and times they live in. It's like ... some king in the middle ages deciding he would marry the local bakers daughter, would never be allowed.

 

_________________

Anyway! *smacks your head* Dun diss my Alistair!!! :biggrin:

*gives you coookies and wiggles off*

[SpellAndShield]

You are totally on the I-Love-Loghain-So-Everyone-Needs-To train aren't you? LOL! My best friend is a huge Loghain lover from reading the books and even she has trouble with him in Origins no matter her love of him (and the non stop desire for Maric+Loghain but that is a whooooole other topic!). So gosh, don't hate on Alistair now! :sad:

 

:laugh:

 

Anyway, I will defend Alistair in steps as you assaulted him :ohmy:

1. Not being in the battle at Ostagar, despite being given an important task!

Only my super sweet goody goody character did not question the fact two Grey Wardens were being sent up a tower to do nothing but light a fire. I mean, come on, who wouldn't say "Why can't I join the battle?" in that circumstance? The Wardens are just a base level soldier in the army but on a higher level than that compared to everyone else - so it was odd that they would send two though what everyone believed was an empty tower to light the beacan. Also, Alistair says in a dialogue later that Duncan purposely kept him out of all fighting because he knew he was Maric's son. So he was starting to get miffed about being pushed to the sidelines in every single battle they fought, and if you were a warrior wouldn't that annoy you?

 

2. Being left all alone; woe is me, I am the only one who suffers!

He alone, including you, are the only Wardens left in Ferelden. It's like ... for lack of anything else to compare it with in my hungry brain I will say compare it to your church or school. Sure the people in your church/school are not your blood relatives but you get to know them and care for them no matter if you are buddy-buddy with everyone. So how would you react if everyone was killed? Wouldn't you be in a horror of shock and weep for being the only one remaining out of everyone? Wouldn't you be like, "Why? Why me? Why am I the only one left?"

 

3. Acts as if he were the only person ever to lose someone they cared about a la Duncan!

Duncan was like a father to Alistair. If your father, who you loved and respected, died wouldn't you feel as though no one else understands your pain and sorrow? And Alistair recognizes and admits that he shouldn't feel this way to my Warden, especially my human noble one when they talk about it. His life was filled with a search for acceptance and a family, he was denied that because of his birth and shipped away from the Arl just when he thought he found a home. And finally believing after all these years he once again found a place to call home with people who cared for him it was all, again, ripped away. Hell, Alistair is very strong to deal with all that.

 

4. Moralising and judgemental, yet too cowardly to take up the lead himself!

Coward? Really? :lol: Because naturally a coward runs into battles ready to kill everything in sight and offers up himself to be sacrificed in the final battle. Gosh, Alistair, hdu be a chicken! As for his morality, I never judge anyone for their own personal beliefs as long as they are not on my case about it. And he never holds that over the Warden's head, even my evil one who poured blood on Andraste's ashes and did a hell of a lot of other horrible unspeakable things during their time together. Plus, you have to realize he was sent off to be a Templar and studied religion non-stop, he is a religious guy and I can't fault him for that any more than you can fault someone for not believing at all. PLUS, lol, not wanting to lead does not equal a coward! For an in game reference take Wynne, at the end of the game she is offered First Enchanters job yet turns it down. That old bat, who I don't even care for all that much (talk about moralising and judgemental!), is definitely not a coward yet she has no desire to lead. Some people just do not want the job, it in no way means they are cowards.

 

5. Selfish; willing to put his own thirst for revenge over the good of the land!

Puhlease! Go back and read all the stuff in the Loghhain thread about why that man should be put to death, lulz.

 

6. Childish; if Loghain is in, I am out, nahahnanana!

Probably at least 90% of all people who play this game are childish because if they were in Alistair's shoes I'm sure they would feel the same way. if the game had a twist where everyone would want Loghain and was against my character then hell yes he/she would walk out after all that man id to them. Rawr. But, I have to say, that Alistair has an amazing sense of humor and therefore is a bit childish/blows over things with humor - and that is one of my favorite things about him! Plus he collects action figures - very nerdy and awesome in my book! *wiggles*

 

7. A heartbreaker and a racist; he cannot stand by the convictions of his alleged feelings and marry a non-human without a mod!

Lordy, racist? Gosh now. If he were that he would never start a romance with your elf/dwarf to begin with. And it is not him that will not allow it, but the country. And it really has nothing to do with him but with the country and times they live in. It's like ... some king in the middle ages deciding he would marry the local bakers daughter, would never be allowed.

 

_________________

Anyway! *smacks your head* Dun diss my Alistair!!! :biggrin:

*gives you coookies and wiggles off*

 

I don't love Loghain; I just respect him more than Alistair. I guess it reflects my real life attitudes; I am a pragmatist; so is Loghain. Alistair is an idealist (though not nearly as bad as his half brother). I will never forget Loghain telling him 'we must attend to reality'...In retrospect, since everyone later admitted that Ostagar would have been a lost battle no matter what happened and Loghain realised this, he took a difficult decision and went with it. Alistair never does anything like that in the game.

[sara1010p]

Logain acted without all the facts, he said that part about attending to reality, but he didn't know everything he needed to know, like the fact that it takes a gray warden to kill the Arch Demon. He let his hatred of Orlisians color every action he took, including Ostgar. Cailan would have waited, if they had gotten the troops from Orlais. But Logain didn't, no, wouldn 't stand for that. He also later tried to pin the blame for everything that happened on my character and Alistar, because they were Wardens. He may have been a great man at one time, but his hatred overruled that, and if he had his way, every grey warden would have ended up dead, and we all know that means that Fereldan would have fallen. If allowing his hatred to govern his actions and almost doom Ferelden in the process isn't selfish, please tell me what is? He is no better than Alistair in any regards, Alistair being whiny or no.

[DarkeWolf]

I have to play devil's advocate here. Indeed, Rogain... er... Loghain didnt know about what it would take to kill an archdemon, and end a blight.

But... in his defense.... NOBODY did. It had been so long that ferelden had seen wardens, and even longer since they'd had to fight DS, that both of them were kind of "mythic". The stuff that they told stories about, and aside from that, they're mostly just forgotten.

I mean jeeze... it was what... 200 years? How much do WE know about what happened 200 years ago?

 

I've talked about how much I dont like either of them until I'm blue in the face and my fingers are worn to the knuckles.

So all I'm gonna say is "Alistair, man up, and stop being stuck to my butt like a lost dog".

[RustyBlade]

I have to play devil's advocate here. Indeed, Rogain... er... Loghain

 

You owe me a keyboard :tongue: (gotta quit taking a drink when I read posts here...)

 

Someone really needs to make a mod that lets the PC tell Al to get his balls out of his purse and hopefully he would see the humor in the dis and not get to awfully upset about it

[danscott84]

I know this will start something, but I have to say it. I think the writers, by mistake probably, made Alistair a lot like Hamlet. The prince caught in the middle of something he doesn't really want. They are both driven to extremes by the loss of their father (Al's case father figure) without any real knowledge or experience to know how to cope with it. And, to top it off, both are hellbent to enact their revenge. Granted Hamlet dies because of his, but Alistair is so entrenched in getting revenge at the Landsmeet that any rational thoughts are lost to him at the moment, even when he is hardened.

[SpellAndShield]

I know this will start something, but I have to say it. I think the writers, by mistake probably, made Alistair a lot like Hamlet. The prince caught in the middle of something he doesn't really want. They are both driven to extremes by the loss of their father (Al's case father figure) without any real knowledge or experience to know how to cope with it. And, to top it off, both are hellbent to enact their revenge. Granted Hamlet dies because of his, but Alistair is so entrenched in getting revenge at the Landsmeet that any rational thoughts are lost to him at the moment, even when he is hardened.

 

This is really an excellent interpretation. I especially like the part about his obsession with revenge; both he and Loghain have that in common; Loghain is blinded by his hatred of Orlais and Alistair really can't think of anything but exacting revenge. I told him in the game my last playthrough right before moy elf mage broke up with him that killing Loghain won't bring Duncan back and it is true. Alistair is a good guy, he really is but his pain and sense of loss blind him to much, i.e. having 4 Grey Wardens on hand to deal with the Archdemon is better than 3.