Rebuilding the world after Fallout 3

[Superhatman9]

Now your idea is intersting, however you have to remember that the brotherhood is a xenophobic society based around the aquisition of new tech. the DC branch is different than the vast majority, however it is perfectly reasonable to assume that you could negotiate with them to form an alliance. also, the vast majority of the enclave is on the west cost (FO 1 and 2). And, the NCR isn't going to be interested in sharing resources so there will probably be some sort of confrontation there along with ceasers legion. an interesting prospect is that of Mothership Zeta. What if the lone wonderer and his allies had access to an advanced alien space ship with all its weapons and orbital strike capabilitys. they would be unstopable. think about it.

[panzersharkcat]

Now your idea is intersting, however you have to remember that the brotherhood is a xenophobic society based around the aquisition of new tech. the DC branch is different than the vast majority, however it is perfectly reasonable to assume that you could negotiate with them to form an alliance. also, the vast majority of the enclave is on the west cost (FO 1 and 2). And, the NCR isn't going to be interested in sharing resources so there will probably be some sort of confrontation there along with ceasers legion. an interesting prospect is that of Mothership Zeta. What if the lone wonderer and his allies had access to an advanced alien space ship with all its weapons and orbital strike capabilitys. they would be unstopable. think about it.

So basically Mothership Zeta Crew?

[7thsealord]

Here is my POV(Point of View)

 

Brotherhood of Steel should expand as big as the US Army. They should build up the citadel ALOOOOOOOOT Bigger. Then.. Well.

 

They should go from Settlement to settlement in BIG Groups like 20 to 30 People. and Escort them ALL to Rivet City as its the most secure area. Then after that is done they should make Rivet city a lot safer w/ Patrolls. And troops moving in and protecting everyone.

 

After that They should recruit GREAT Engineers that can build up a HUUUUUUGE Town like the D.C And Brotherhood of Steel would help them from the dangers etc. When the town is done they should let everyone out of Rivet City and let them move into that big town, They should use Rivet City for supply and BoS Could use it as their Main " Base " .. They should however clear out the D.C Ruins.

 

Cause D.C Is More screwed then the Wasteland.

 

This would take time, But the situation the world is now in is a lot beter. They SHOULD Repair the vaults and make them " Just in case " a new nuclear war.

 

Brotherhood of Steel as the New US Army could aswell become the new Lawbringers ( Cops ) In the Wasteland. I don't know much about Enclave tho.. Id say that BoS Could take them out by building 3 Liberty primes and get a lot of troops

 

.... Because forced relocation has always worked so incredibly well, historically speaking. There will undoubtedly be a number of settlements that do NOT want to be shifted and (like me) see no logical reason why they should be. Furthermore, this assumes that Rivet City is capable of supporting all those extra people, can find gainful employment for all of them pdq, and actually wants to go this path.

 

And it is always so easy to find and recruit GREAT engineers in a post-apocalyptic wasteland. More common than Mole Rats, actually - they turn up in every second random encounter.

 

And, while the Vaults COULD be very useful in the re-building process, readying them for another nuclear war is just plain .... WTH???? Nuclear war with whom? If invoking 'just in case', then why not ALSO make preparations against tsunamis, volcanoes, dinosaur stampedes or invading armies from Mordor? Better off using the resources that this would require for silly stuff like basic day-to-day survival and the whole 're-build civilization' thing.

 

And if the BOS could easily or even conceivably build more Liberty Primes, would they? Consider .....

1. Getting the first one running was plainly a 'dig up, apply duct tape, jump start and pray' sort of thing, so the BOS seems a long way from being able to build more.

2. Given that the BOS does not have unlimited resources (and is unlikely to achieve this status anytime soon), just what would they have to NOT build (or otherwise do without) in order to build more Liberty Primes?

3. Liberty Primes are handy for fighting large high-tech enemies like the Enclave (not a frequent thing), but ridiculous overkill against anything less. They could toast any possible or even imaginable Raider gang, but that is like using a jackhammer to crack an egg - sure, it might work but it is an inefficient use of a jackhammer and there is very little left of the egg afterwards.

4. A handful of Liberty Primes could dominate the DC Wastes, but there are only so many places each can be at one time, there are a bunch of places (like inside buildings or the DC subway) that they simply cannot go in the first place, and they are worse than useless at anything requiring stealth and/or interaction with other people. More dudes with decent training and good-quality equipment, with Verti-Birds for support, would seem like a much more effective use of resources.

Edited December 10, 2012 by 7thsealord

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

I’ve read the entire post, and its theories on everything from forming a new government to agriculture, the water table, to building structure decay.

 

Instead of theorizing, the simplest thing to do is stay true to the actual content of the main storyline and all DLCs, and apply Occam’s razor:

 

Rivet City, the largest settlement in the Capital Wasteland, and East Coast BoS are already working together and sending water everywhere as well as patrolling the routes of transport, for free. This is what governments do: provide basic quality of life services to its citizens. That being said, they are already forming a government through actions.

Though that may be a small thing for you reading this, and all of us here in the real word, in the CW it is a *HUGE* deal and the most major change any of the wastelanders and settlements have ever seen.

 

The ECBoS accepts wastelanders as recruits and so the ECBoS ranks steadily increase. Members are always in power armor or recon armor so it is implied that is enough to outfit all members. Though the ECBoS uses PA, they are not ever shown wearing Enclave Armor.

Laser weapons are common enough as well as various Big Guns to outfit all members.

 

Agriculture exists at Point Lookout and the Tribals are willing to trade. Punga fruit is sold by traders in the CW and must come to the CW via the ferry at Riverboat Landing near The Citadel.

 

After finishing Mothership Zeta it seems the Lone Wanderer does not share knowledge of the Mothership and its resources except for selling spare items to the traders. So the traders who are affiliated with Canterbury Commons, and are already friendly with RC and thus the ECBoS, would provide them with the new tech/weapons … for a price. Remember, Roe says they “won’t do business with those who attack their friends” so the Raiders and Talon Company aren’t getting and goods from them.

 

Whether Republic of Dave joins depends if Rosie is president or not. If she is, we all know they’d join this alliance. If not, we all know they will remain a separate sovereign ‘nation.’

 

Tenpenny Tower is the same and will either join the RC/ECBoS alliance and possibly receive more benefits, or they will stay as they are: a solitary gated community.

 

Raiders are cannon fodder for every other faction and they only logical location for them to survive is Evergreen Mills.

Interestingly, some Raiders in the wasteland are seen wearing Power Armor after Take it Back! I’ve personally witnessed (battled) some wearing Enclave Tesla Power Armor with no helmet.

I will not theorize on what people with Power Armor training would become Raiders.

 

Regulators are of good alignment and are prime candidates for sheriff and mayors of the settlements that wish to join the RC/ECBoS alliance.

Megaton, run by Mr. Lucas Simms (a Regulator), already shows that they are outstanding candidates for town management.

 

The Pitt would remain separate from the CW except for its ties to Paradise Falls. Ashur doesn’t like the BoS and wants to remain separate from them and ‘rebuild civilization’ on his own in the way he has decided is the right way: with his slaves and emerging industry.

 

Rivet City’s council already frowns upon slavery as does ECBoS’s other ally, Three Dog.

Paradise Falls maintains a cold, separate non-hostile relation with the RC/ECBoS alliance for as long as it can… they will be wiped off the map when the RC/ECBoS alliance armed forces decide to make it a point to use a few Fat Mans there: I’ve given Flak, Arkansas, and Red a Fat Man and one mini nuke each, combat armor, a few stimpacks, and combat shotguns every time I mezzed them in Strictly Business. Afterwards when I freed them, they’d *always* wipe out all the slavers. Sometimes one or two of the three would die, but *all* the slavers died, every time.

 

The Abolitionists of the Temple Of The Union are obviously on good terms with the anti-slavery Rivet City and by extension the ECBoS.

 

ECBoS targeted Underworld Citizens prior “Take It Back!” but afterwards are on more amicable terms. Underworld remains the small, independent haven for Ghouls it always was.

 

Reilly’s Rangers being of good alignment obviously side with the RC/ECBoS alliance.

 

The Outcasts have no interest in and want nothing to do with rebuilding civilization or providing clean water. Furthermore, they battle the ECBoS to the death whenever they meet in the wastes.

The outcome is that they will either go underground like the BoS in the Mojave Wasteland, or eventually be wiped out: Since they do not accept recruits, they will succumb to a war of attrition.

 

Chinese Remnants will also be wiped out through a war of attrition if they ever leave Mama Dolce’s: they are unfriendly to all other factions including other Ghouls.

The good thing is that except for the Chinese assault rifle, pistol, officer’s sword, and stealth armor, at least everything doesn’t have a “Made in China” label on it anymore…

Oops... topic for another post.

 

The small settlement of Arefu obviously will accept help from wherever it can.

This leads to a small quandary: The RC/ECBoS alliance would obviously be friendly to the small settlement in need of water, and the Traders of Canterbury Commons are obviously on good terms with Arefu, but what of the Family that resides nearby and maybe providing protection to Arefu depending on how you finished Blood Ties?

The Family is cannibal and thus “both feared and hated even in the lawless wasteland” yet The Family’s only tie to “civilization” is through Arefu whom they agreed to provide protection to in return for goods as Vance stated they “don’t have caps to trade” (which is very odd since the trader Karl is a member).

If that alliance is broken they would have to revert to the way they were before: a band of cannibalistic raiders sneaking about and following their “Five Laws.”

It’s funny how the smallest, least significant settlement is the one that is the hardest to figure out how it fits into the new scope of things.

 

Talon Company is spread out, they accept recruits so their ranks grow the same pace as other factions, they have a well protected base as well as outposts, are well trained, and tough.

Since Talon Company works for caps this means they will work for anyone who pays. They should be hired to clean out the Super Mutant infestation in the DC ruins. They already battle Super Mutants whenever they meet as it is.

If they are not paid by the RC/ECBoS alliance and incorporated into them, they will be the biggest threat in the Capital Wasteland.

 

Well… I realize I theorized a wee bit and apologize since I said I wouldn’t, but I did do my best to “stick to the simple facts” based upon actual lore from the game, the Fallout 3 Official Game Guide, and from my game play experiences (always as a neutral, and occasionally good alignment character).

 

The Capital Wasteland is run by a Committee at Rivet City with the new “department of defense” run by the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel. Remarkably fitting since Rivet City is sitting in the seat of the USA’s old Capital, and since the BoS is descended from the US Army.

 

Happy 2277 everyone! :)

[7thsealord]

Your general summation is very logical.

 

Of course, all that assumes that some of those places actually survive. I prefer to run "Good" LWs, and blitzing Paradise Falls, Evergreen Mills AND everything to do with Talon Company always stands high on my list of things to do. I can seriously whomp on all of them with a clear conscience, and doing so gives me a truckload of stuff to make use of or sell.

 

Then too, I'd have major misgivings about hiring on Talon Company for any 'Rebuild Civilization' effort in any case. They seem to be little more than high-tech Raiders at best.

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

Your general summation is very logical.

 

Of course, all that assumes that some of those places actually survive. I prefer to run "Good" LWs, and blitzing Paradise Falls, Evergreen Mills AND everything to do with Talon Company always stands high on my list of things to do. I can seriously whomp on all of them with a clear conscience, and doing so gives me a truckload of stuff to make use of or sell.

 

Then too, I'd have major misgivings about hiring on Talon Company for any 'Rebuild Civilization' effort in any case. They seem to be little more than high-tech Raiders at best.

 

Hey 7th, Happy New Year!

Well yes, very true -- I realize a lot of LW's will be torching this settement and that. Megaton doesn't survive some Lone Wanderer's, Rivet City is turned into a graveyard by others. And some torch Paradise Falls, Fort Independance, Evergreen Mills, etc.

For some reason I like playing the neutral observer aka "Vagabond of the Wastes." Live and Usually Let Live I say. The only ones I really have very low tolerance for are Raiders.

And I prefer to enslave them over killing them. A Raider once enslaved troubles the Wasteland no more. For every raider I enslave I do penance by donating either 50 pieces of scrap to Walter in Megaton, giving 10 bottles of purifed water to Micky, or by donating 250 caps to Saint Monica's Church.

 

Anyhow before I get too far off-topic, as you stated, logic dictated the response I wrote. I think that for rebuilding civilization it was the most straightforward way of going about it. I don't think Raiders fit into civilization at all as they enjoy anarchy and murder. Talon Company, though they seem to "enjoy murder," do it for caps, as an organized corporation as it were. As long as they continued to be a controlled-by-caps organization, they can be controlled.

I have some misgivings as well hiring them, but they are experts at what they do: killing things and blowing stuff up. Hiring them to take out the Super Mutant infestation is the most logical thing to do because this leaves the BoS and RC to continue concentrating their efforts on distributing water and building-up their forces, while Talon stays 'whittled down' fighting Super Mutants.

 

Then again... I forgot before I wrote my previous post (and just remembered a few min ago) all about the Brotherhood of Steel Knights getting in attack formation outside Fort Bannister who are trying to retrieve a water caravan that the Talons have stolen and to recover captured Brotherhood of Steel Paladin Jensen in the tents in the Fort Bannister camp after Take it Back!

 

So I stand corrected: Talon Company will have to be eventually wiped out for a smooth transition to rebuilding civilization to occur because they are already "at war" with RC/ECBoS. That's going to be a pretty bloody guerrilla war. After BoS takes over Fort Bannister, the only Talon Company we'll probably be seeing is the ones inside their little Outpost near Megaton and the wandering bands in the Wastes and some parts of DC.

 

I haven't done any "after Take It Back!" playthroughs in probably about a year or so due to having to restart for one reason or another and forgot all about that BoS patrol at Fort Bannister. It should be interesting once I get that far again. I tend to follow a pattern where I run straight to Oasis right after starting a new game and after completing that, ask Poplar 'where am I going next?' (actually, it's "what do you see in my future?") and then complete quests in that order before doing any of the main storyline. It makes for an interesting game for me.

 

I have a looong way to go before I get to rebuilding civilization.

[7thsealord]

Your game, your rules, naturally.

 

Personally, I'm uncomfortable with selling off ANYONE, even captured Raiders, to the Slavers. Sure, one can justify this as what those Raiders deserve but, as I see it, this is also helping the Slavers stay in business.

 

This is a bunch that has absolutely no qualms about wiping out settlements (refer: Rockopolis) or selling kids - and will undoubtedly keep doing these things whenever the oppurtunity and chance for profit presents.

 

They are also much better organized than any Raider group, and with connections beyond the DC area. Which (IMO) makes them a bigger danger than Raiders rather than a convenient means of garbage disposal.

Edited January 17, 2013 by 7thsealord

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

7thsealord, clearly you are a person Very Good Karma. I'm sure Three Dog has only nice things to say about you. He's not always so kind when describing me. :rolleyes:

 

And you're completely correct on the ALL negative aspects of the Slavers you pointed out. I guess that's why it takes so much effort for me to maintain neutral karma while doing that. I eventually gain good karma doing quests that lasts a few days or weeks but it swiftly drops back down to neutral unless I make a concerted effort to "do nice things for others."

 

I mean, instead of drinking that purified water, I'm giving 10 bottles away per person I've enslaved, heck I'm giving away all 250 caps that Grouse paid me and then paying an additional 150 to a church. You know, after reading your post and thinking on it, I realized that I'm doing it for a selfish reason: to make places I walk through safer for me. That it's also safer for others is a positive by-product. Crikey! I'm a lot more selfish (and maybe even a bit 'evil') that I realized :psyduck:

This thought occured when I realized that I am comfortable selling people who I view as "evil."

Things that make me say Hmmmmmmm :geek:

 

Well... I guess I have a long way to go before I change because my goal was (still is?) to make the wasteland "Raider free" through "managed organizational restructuring" (enslavement). And with MMM Increased Spawns set to it's default "1-3," I really DO have a long way to go. It went from scattered "bands" of Raiders in the Wasteland to a Mad Max-like army of Raiders :blink:

 

I will say this though: killing them is MUCH easier that enslaving, but enslaving removes them forever. Oh wow, there I go justifying slavery again :psyduck:

 

Yes, you're completely right... "garbage disposal" and I'm uncertain how I feel about that :devil: :sweat: :blink:

Edited January 17, 2013 by DavidYokosukaJapan

[7thsealord]

7thsealord, clearly you are a person Very Good Karma. I'm sure Three Dog has only nice things to say about you. He's not always so kind when describing me. :rolleyes:

 

W-e-l-l,mostly Good Karma. Being Evil has never held any appeal (there are exceptions - that idiot who needs escort to Bigtown often dies horribly enroute :) ). A few other areas are either left alone (like Tenpenny Towers) or I side with the "wrong" guys (Ashur in The Pitt) because I simply don't like the choices involved.

 

..... And I DO like blowing away Raiders. And Talon Company. And Slavers. Especially Slavers. Get a nice warm feeling of moral superiority from that, after time in The Pitt.

 

As said before , your game, your rules. Compared with some of the stuff that other people do, you are pretty mild, really.

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

W-e-l-l,mostly Good Karma. Being Evil has never held any appeal (there are exceptions - that idiot who needs escort to Bigtown often dies horribly enroute :) ). A few other areas are either left alone (like Tenpenny Towers) or I side with the "wrong" guys (Ashur in The Pitt) because I simply don't like the choices involved.

 

..... And I DO like blowing away Raiders. And Talon Company. And Slavers. Especially Slavers. Get a nice warm feeling of moral superiority from that, after time in The Pitt.

 

As said before , your game, your rules. Compared with some of the stuff that other people do, you are pretty mild, really.

 

Being outright evil's never appealed to me either. Just doesn't feel right even tho it's only a game :sweat:

 

I guess the only outright evil I am is seeing slavery as Just punishment for 'the worst of the worst.' I'm also a completionist freak: if I take a mission, I complete it. So when I get the Mezzer I do end up catching all 4 of the VIP targets. But for some reason I always arm Flak, Red, and Arkansas with great armor, 2 stimpacks, one Fat Man w/ one mini nuke, and some great side weapon like the Fire Lance or Ithaca model 37 shotgun, and then free them after completing Strictly Business. Susan gets freed too but is given nothing other than Sexy Sleepwear. :devil: There used to be some GREAT battles that ensued after I released them all but after installing either the Remastered or Blackened patch they run free and the slavers ignore them. Weird.

 

Funny how everyone hates Sticky (a.k.a. Annoying Man). I hated him at first but after a while he seems to grow on you... I dunno, "comic relief" in the Wasteland maybe :sweat: I caught my wife imitating him once... that was pretty funny :P

ANyhow, I always arm that dork and keep him alive and actually escort him there. I've even reloaded a game after he died in battle doing something stupid, just to make sure I'd get him to Big Town alive.

With Tenpenny Tower I initially (when I played Good Karma characters) always sided with Roy Phillips and friends using the "diplomatic method." But that's disappointing because all the people, even the good ones like Herbert Dashwood, end up murdered by them.

Now I always side with the humans in Tenpenny and that just feels right.

 

Like you I always side with Ashur in The Pitt. Werner's plan to steal a baby from loving, caring parents is evil :down:

 

Well, back to the game :thumbsup: