RS13 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The thieves guild quest-line was really disappointing to me. I mean, I give away the skeleton key? I sell my soul for armor? I steal basically nothing? We're under Maven's thumb? And don't even get me started on Karliah's plan. Can someone make this more interesting? Or just provide an alternative thieves guild that actually, you know, *steals* stuff? I get this is a shot in dark, but I hoping somebody was as underwhelmed by that questline as I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlee3141 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Actually, I thought the Thieves Guild questline was the best in the game; with the unexpected betrayal and the effort required to become Guildmaster. I've got the Mages Guild questline covered, so your best bet would be rewriting the Companions or Dark Brotherhood quests. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmyhome Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The only thing I don't like about the Thieve's guild is that you can't kick Maven's butt. You only played past the Mercer part, didn't you? If you want to become Guild Master, there's still a lot stealing to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS13 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Yeah, I never became guild master. The whole preform the same job over and over until you get the quest you actually need never appealed to me. But the big problem is that the main plotline was just terrible, imo. I mean Karliah's whole goal is take Mercer into the guild to answer for his crimes. Two *huge* problems: 1. Her only evidence is a journal written in a language none of them can even identify let alone read. It could be Gallus's crappy emo poetry or his fantasies about lusty argonian maids. And there's no reason--other than her testimony--to believe that it even is Gallus's journal. Is the rest of the guild (many of whom joined after Gallus's death) supposed to recognize his handwriting in another language 20 years after his death?2. Her strategy--get Maven pissed at the guild--is absurd. She's counting on Maven having competition in the mead business and blaming the guild as a result. What?? The only evidence that even remotely links the success of honningbrew mead to an upset backer with a grudge against the thieves guild is found only when the that success is undermined (either by stealing the deed to goldenglow or poisoning the guard captain). Even if this got Maven all pissy with the guild how would this help her capture Mercer in the slightest? She's more lead to lead to the destruction of the thieves guild than its passing judgement on Mercer. It's especially annoying when everyone tells you how inspired this stupid plan is. Idk, maybe I'm being too nitpicky; I'm just hoping somebody might see this and decide the theives guild needs an overhaul. Or maybe even better just add an alternative guild of thieves. Edited August 26, 2014 by RS13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlee3141 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Yeah, she confronts them with a rubbing of Calcelmo's stone, and a journal no one else could have written because Ancient Falmer is a dead language. Only a handful of scholars know it, Gallus being one of them. Besides, the front of the journal has the Nightingale symbol on it. That's not easy to fake in that day and age. Edited August 26, 2014 by mlee3141 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS13 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Yes, she presented the translated journal but... 1). At the time that she sets her plan in motion--even at the time that she first tries to capture Mercer, she has *no idea* what's in the journal. She doesn't even know what language it's in. Even *if* she had reason to think that Gallus recorded his suspicions there, (1) that proves little. Mercer could just say Gallus failed to suspect the woman he loved until it was too late. and (2) wouldn't it make sense to get it translated *before* capturing Mercer? What if it takes a year to track down the relevant scholars? What if she has to--as you actually have to!--travel all over skyrim to get it translated? Is she gonna drag Mercer along with her? Or would she leave him tied up in Snowveil Sanctum? Hope he doesn't have Realistic Needs installed. That's the most important part. Her plan has a giant hole right in the middle. It's hard to believe she came up with this over the course of an afternoon, nevermind 20 freaking years. But even aside from that...2). Why would the thieves guild believe her? She has a journal they can't understand and what *she* says is a translation. Whoop-de-freaking-do. Anybody can present anything and claim it's a translation. The rubbing doesn't help novices--even with the rubbing we had to get another scholar to translate it. (Also, why would a nightingale symbol be hard to fake? It's not terribly complicated. And why would the rest of the guild even know it? They think the nightingales are a myth.) Edited August 26, 2014 by RS13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS13 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 And before you say it... 3.) It doesn't help to claim that believed her only when they checked the vault--because it's ridiculous to think that either (A) Mercer'd been stealing stuff from the vault for 20 years and nobody noticed even when they put stuff in there or (B) That he could empty the vault with nobody seeing. It's right out there in the open! And no, punting to magic or the skeleton key won't help. We have a pretty good idea what those can do and they can't make several chests worth loot invisible and silent for as long as it takes to haul them out. Even the most powerful mage would have difficulty on that score and Mercer's no mage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmyhome Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 He abused a Daedric Artefact. He got a whole different level of power off of the Skeleton Key. Remember how he used it to crumble Dwemer Towers to slow you down? I have no difficulty believing he carried all the loot away from under their noses over 20 years.What I do wonder is what he spent it on. He doesn't seem to live very expensive; most of his days are spent in the Cistern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3EyeSudios Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Okay allow me to clear up a few things about Karliah's tacticsby upsetting Maven, Karliah attempted to destroy the guild's foothold in Riften by destroying their relation with thier last influential client in Skyrim.No Maven = no protection from the guard, no jobs, no Ragged Flagon, no Thieve's Guild. What Karliah was trying to do was to destroy Mercer's Guild, and possibly set up her own, rebuild what was lost. BUT by knowingly leaving Gulum-Ei's alias in the Goldenglow deed, she allowed her plan to lead the guild to Gulum-Ei, who would tell them about her and that she went "where the end began" to lure Mercer into her trap so that she could take the Skeleton Key and restore the Sepulcher herself and bring Mercer before the Guild and to expose his crimesShe was planning this for 20 years, she knew what she was doingThe journal and revealing Mercer's treachery to the guild was a back up planspeaking of whichKarliah had faith that the answers were in the journalShe didn't know, she hoped. And if you're given 20 years to think about why the luck ran dry and how Mercer got all that moneyYou can probably piece things together pretty quicklyAll she needed was a verified source aka Gallus' journal Edited August 28, 2014 by 3EyeSudios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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