spoiler What are people's opinions on Morrigan?

[DarkeWolf]

Geeze, why this kind of hate? Why give yourself ulcers with this kind of anxiety over a fictional character that is just a figment of somebody's imagination?

[Shacary]

When i played my first tw o playthroughs i didnt like morrigan. I just got fustrated i lost faction for giving coins to the poor etc. but then i started talking to her [ lol somethign i didnt bother doing my first two playthrus with any of them really] and i discovered she w as a complex character. I think her social faux pas is due to lack of interaction, she explains it to, never learnign how to haggle, when to look in eyes etc.

But i found her to be caring in her own way, unable t deal with new emotions, but learning kindness through her interactions with the warden. She is kind a like my older sister in my eyes, rebellious, strong willed and determined. I liked her, Im not crazy over the dark r itual altho I think any being would want to live! but thats cuz i dont want to share my love interest or be unfaithful to my chosen comrade.

Of course if its the warden thats romancing her its a whole new level of discovery. She might not be virginal, but emotionally she IS!

what starts out as easy come easy go slowly morphs into a bond that consumes her, frightens her. I think she is endearing in her uncertainity etc. That being said I dont believe that the ritual with the child is for a good purpose. Ithink it was designed for Power and survival [ i cant help but think of flemeth taking in a demon for power/survival] . however that does not totally negate her chances of raising the child as she was raised but also having grown from her encounters with the wardens, more kindness, love may seep in. I am willing to bet she wouldnt smash the childs baubles as flemeth did!

anyways I found all the characters intriguing, believable and fun in a new way. Bioware did an amazing job, and I too have always adored Claudia Black as an actress!

[Dileos]

She yells at me for helping the poor.

She yells at me for yelling at that merchant in Lothering.

She yells at me for wanting to save the children in the Circle Tower.

She yells at me for x.

She yells at me for y.

She wants to spawn a demon baby and then run away with it.

She picks on Alistair.

All she wants from you at first is sex. Wanting nothing but sex is soooo attractive...

Even when she does start being "nice" to you in the romance she still comes off as a female dog.

She may very well be the daughter of a shape shifting dragon lady who seduces men to raise daughters that she can then assume direct control of. Sorry but I already deal with horrible in-laws IRL.

 

 

Need I list any more reasons why female dog-witch is one of the worst companions ever?

[Utotri]

 

Morrigan is a pragmatist, not a man-hating black hat villain.

 

You spout around the black hat thing far too much. *You* are the one who fails to see the complex visions of the anti-Morrigan crowd. When someone or something is called evil it does not mean that there can't be redeeming qualities, it is simply the end result of the equation of adding up the goodness and substracting the evil.

She's helping the Warden save Ferelden. She argues for results that enpower the Warden. Her opinions tend to walk that line based on Flemeth's teachings. Do you think she's callous for her actions at Redcliffe or the Circle? Morrigan thinks the Warden should focus on the other treaties. Again, it's not something I'd do, but helping the villagers is a matter of defending the helpless, not aiding the Landsmeet.

 

Here you repeat a number of things that you give as facts, but they have been disputed before in this thread. This is the vision of Morrigan you choose, but the others focus on her leaving the villagers to rot for instance, which is evil. You may disagree, but I do not understand why you continue to fight the vision of Morrigan being evil. Your argument basically consists of nothing but the arrogant assumption that 'we' can't be right because Morrigan shows other qualities too. Well yes, we see her development and how she can see goodness being applied. But the development is incomplete and does not lead to a change in dispositions like it does with for instance Al and Leliana. Morrigans stays egoistic and pragmatic, which results in evil decisions. BioWare meant to work it out better, but they didn't and this is not our fault. You argue that Morrigan is helping herself and argues for empowering the Warden, but these things are profitable for Morrigan herself as well so we can't distinguish.

Her hatred of the Circle as an apostate is focused more on her life as a free mage looking at people living under the iron grip of the Chantry and Templars. Uldred's revolt illustrates that many mages saw it as nothing more than a prison, and the issue with runaway mages getting killed if they run away from this prison would make her despise those who do nothing.

If the Circle proves it can try to free itself but fails, this should be a plus for the Circle in Morrigan's view, no? Well, no it isn't because Morrigan resents their failure. The Circle can't win with Morrigan it seems.

 

Lastly, leaving with the child is her choice, she lets you know all of the facts, and she tells you she will leave up front, so why all the hate?

All the facts? That's not at all the case. She hardly tells you anything. It can probably be assumed that she is not lying, because Morrigan is quite honest most of the time, but there are a lot of questions she only answers half.

 

And then there is the point that leaving with the child is simply unfair on the father. Morrigan telling you of her evil deed does not mean it is not evil.

[Coous]

this is the vision of Morrigan you choose, but the others focus on her leaving the villagers to rot for instance, which is evil.

 

Good and Evil are mere perceptions not fact there for since good and evil can't be 100% true all the time it is then mere opinion. So please stop using black and white words to describe something complex as a person. However leaving the village to rot is not the best strategy looking at the goal long term,but is it worth it? Only if you don't lose much saving them which is a gamble. When you talk strategy and hard decisions where picking the wrong choice can ruin the whole plan is not good or evil. You can say leaving Ameranthine later on to burn so you can save the more strategical keep if you haven't upgraded it is preceded as evil,but it wasn't worth it so it was a necessary to save your center heart of your arling and keep most of it together than a fraction of it.

 

 

If the Circle proves it can try to free itself but fails, this should be a plus for the Circle in Morrigan's view, no? Well, no it isn't because Morrigan resents their failure. The Circle can't win with Morrigan it seems.

 

It can't win in the eyes of Morrigan because it's too weak to break their chains and therefor deserves its fate.

 

All the facts? That's not at all the case. She hardly tells you anything. It can probably be assumed that she is not lying, because Morrigan is quite honest most of the time, but there are a lot of questions she only answers half.

 

And then there is the point that leaving with the child is simply unfair on the father. Morrigan telling you of her evil deed does not mean it is not evil.

 

While it is really unfair for the father of the child where I would myself I said is evil,but once again evil is a perception not fact because when you look at it as a whole right now the Warden has offical duties to deal with for now and can't simply argue,but there will be a time when the father will have the time to make things right for himself and track her down.

[Utotri]

this is the vision of Morrigan you choose, but the others focus on her leaving the villagers to rot for instance, which is evil.

 

Good and Evil are mere perceptions not fact there for since good and evil can't be 100% true all the time it is then mere opinion. So please stop using black and white words to describe something complex as a person.

 

Am I using the word to describe actions. The constant evil of Morrigan's actions make me conclude that Morrigan as a person is evil. It is an expected result given her philosophies.

However leaving the village to rot is not the best strategy looking at the goal long term,but is it worth it? Only if you don't lose much saving them which is a gamble. When you talk strategy and hard decisions where picking the wrong choice can ruin the whole plan is not good or evil.

 

This has been discussed earlier. I stick to my view that it is not good strategy to leave Redcliffe. It is a strategic village and it will make sure you can safely examine the castle. There can be doubts about what the proper strategy is, of course, but this should be trampled over by the consideration that the villagers will die without help.

You can say leaving Ameranthine later on to burn so you can save the more strategical keep if you haven't upgraded it is preceded as evil,but it wasn't worth it so it was a necessary to save your center heart of your arling and keep most of it together than a fraction of it.

It isn't comparable. In Amaranthine there is a choice between two places to defend. In Redcliffe there is the choice to defend or not.

 

 

If the Circle proves it can try to free itself but fails, this should be a plus for the Circle in Morrigan's view, no? Well, no it isn't because Morrigan resents their failure. The Circle can't win with Morrigan it seems.

 

It can't win in the eyes of Morrigan because it's too weak to break their chains and therefor deserves its fate.

 

Exactly. Now how is this not evil? Any sane person would conclude, given the powers that work against the mages, that they simply need help with attaining their freedom. Instead, Morrigan blames them. Think about a real world situation that is somewhat comparable like the Palestinians. Do they deserve to be locked up in Gaza, destined for poverty and squalor? Or like the West Bank, see the others infringe and infringe without any way to stop it except some makeshift rockets, some left weapons and some sticks and some stones?

 

All the facts? That's not at all the case. She hardly tells you anything. It can probably be assumed that she is not lying, because Morrigan is quite honest most of the time, but there are a lot of questions she only answers half.

 

And then there is the point that leaving with the child is simply unfair on the father. Morrigan telling you of her evil deed does not mean it is not evil.

 

While it is really unfair for the father of the child where I would myself I said is evil,but once again evil is a perception not fact because when you look at it as a whole right now the Warden has offical duties to deal with for now and can't simply argue,but there will be a time when the father will have the time to make things right for himself and track her down.

 

Evil is not just a perception. Morality is flexible, but there are guiding principles. Come on now, I don't want to go through Hobbes and Locke and the like, this stuff is self-evident. Morrigan tramples the freedoms and rights of others for her own gain or for something as vapid as preserving powerful things.

[Coous]

This has been discussed earlier. I stick to my view that it is not good strategy to leave Redcliffe. It is a strategic village and it will make sure you can safely examine the castle. There can be doubts about what the proper strategy is, of course, but this should be trampled over by the consideration that the villagers will die without help.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear on what I said above,but I was actually agreeing with you that helping Radcliffe is a good strategy,but deciding to do something else to further the goal dose not make her evil.I was also giving Ameranthine as an example of this point that in you can do either or,but it is up to you to make the call if it was worth it or not.If you have seen the movie saving private Ryan,you will note all but one guy from the original team dies saving one person who wasn't even going to help the war effort and good soldiers die saving him. While yes it is morally good to do such,but was it good strategically most will say that more manpower for the war was lost. She was making her views call on a strategic decision that she saw wouldn't be worth the risk of it,Sten also thinks that chasing after the Urn is a waste of resources that should be spent against the blight,so are you going to call Sten evil too for not fully wanting to help Eamon. You can't call someone evil because of a strategic decision of their view they thought it was right,history will later judge it a good or bad decision,but you can't call them evil for it either.

 

It can't win in the eyes of Morrigan because it's too weak to break their chains and therefor deserves its fate

Exactly. Now how is this not evil?

 

So you find Nature evil? This is the survival of the fittest,this is how many things work,and I probably shouldn't have said deserved as that's the wrong way to say it,but in her eyes a circle that can't win its freedom on its own is not strong.

 

Evil is not just a perception

Yes it is, because if Good & Evil isn't a perception than the opinions of Morrigan should all include she is evil. This is not clearly the case though,I recommend my Nietzsche quote on such like this(also Master-slave morality by him too). I say just because we view it as that dose not make it true to everyone, some people are viewed evil,but they see themselves doing good. A good example of this also is if you ever played Warcraft 3 campaign with as Arthas before he becomes a Death Knight,this is a prime example of how it is mere perception not a truth. Arthas thinks that pruging the city of plagued people before they bolster the army of damnded even more is good and will end up putting them out of their misery,but Janna and Uther say no that's bad and rash evil thing too do and that there might be another way. The problem is that the plague is already starting to turn people into the undead and Arthas sees this as the only quick choice to stop this from getting out of hand. While it was a good decision he was thought as a monster by Uther and Janna for doing something because that's how THEY saw it. The choice is yours too see how you will,but you can't say she's evil because a decision she thought was right for the greater good of the goal.

[Dileos]

Fanboy tears always taste the best.

[LobselVith66]

Fanboy tears always taste the best.

 

Let me guess, that's the name of your band? :turned:

[Dileos]

Fanboy tears always taste the best.

 

Let me guess, that's the name of your band? :turned:

 

Nah, its Rubber Baby Buggy Bumpers.

 

We're super hardcore. :cool: