Mod Request Thread

[Marcus Wolfe]

3rd mod list:

Tomahawk: thrown axe, see http://t4.images.live.com/images/thumbnail...a6f139fd94fa629

Desert type areas: With cacti and cow skulls!!!!

fragility: everything must be breakable!!

Tattooes: get inked!!

And, presenting my most contreversial idea yet:

GUNs: Not big ones, just some very expensive pistols, maybe a musket with bayonet.

[Armod]

Quote from Solidshake: "Err, they were made with obsidian edges. It's proven that the obsidian used was sharper than steel, so it'd be a lot of damage inflicted."

 

I knew it wasn't really flint that the edges were made of, but I couldn't remember what the actual mineral was. Now that you have reminded me that it was obsidian, I have been able to research and can now report these findings. According to Mohs Scale of Mineral Hardness, iron rates 4 to 5, obsidian 5 to 5.5, and hardened steel 7 to 8 (remember that this is just a scale of the order of hardness of various minerals, and the numbers do not reflect how MUCH harder each mineral is than another). Thus, an obsidian blade may indeed be sharper (i.e., have a thinner edge) than a steel blade , but that doesn't mean that the obsidian blade would cut through the steel blade (the edge of a sheet of paper is sharper than a glass bottle, but it won't cut through it, because glass is harder than paper). I can certainly imagine that obsidian tipped pointed weapons like spears, darts, and arrows could penetrate steel armor (with sufficient force behind it, even a wooden spear could do that), but I have extreme doubts that a low mass (because it is mainly made of wood) sword with flat obsidian edges would make any significant dent in even iron, let alone steel armor. Remember that even with steel weapons, the object was to find the weak points in armor, like the joints and throat (and preferably skewer the enemy at one of these points after you had knocked him down), rather than hack away in the hope of cutting through it. And, of course, remember also that a mere handful of steel armored and weaponed Conquistadores managed to withstand everything that the numerically far superior Aztecs could throw at them militarily.

 

In any case, my personal lack of enthuisiasm for your proposal was really more to do with aesthetics. The swords in Guild Wars whose designs are apparently inspired by these Aztec swords are really ugly, and I think that most players are glad when they progress beyond having to use them.

 

 

Quote from Abramul: "That said, Raw Ebony might be used instead of Obsidian, which would certainly result in a tougher weapon."

 

How could a blade made entirely of wood be tougher than one made of wood with inset obsidian edges? Yes, that's right, ebony is WOOD. The notion that ebony is some kind of mineral extracted from the ground is one of the biggest bloopers in Morrowind (with its famous "raw ebony mines"), and I am amazed that this mistake by Bethesda is still being perpetuated now. Ebony is, in fact, a very dark, very fine grained, and very dense wood, used in cabinetwork, decorative carving, and, for example, for making the black piano keys, but it is without question obtained from living TREES. What Bethesda actually had in mind when they originally made this blooper was jet, which is mineralised fossil wood formed underground (like coal only under much greater pressure). Jet can indeed be, and is, mined, but since it can be carved, I am not sure that it has the properties of great strength that Bethesda mythically ascribes to it. At any rate, Bethesda evidently recognised (but didn't publicise) its mistake - there are no "ebony mines" in Cyrodiiil and ebony armor is dark brown (suggesting some kind of wood) rather than (jet) black.

[ninja_lord666]

Something like this?

There's an updated version here

 

Edit:

Yes, that's right, ebony is WOOD.

I knew there was ebony wood, but I thought that there was also some sort of mineral called ebony which gave the wood it's name. I guess I was wrong.

[Abramul]

...

This is equivalent to saying that because giant insects don't exist in real life, you can't have plate armor made out of insect shell.

 

Also, the following should be noted: (Bolds added)

ebony (plural ebonies)

 

1. A hard, heavy, deep black wood from various subtropical and tropical trees, especially of the genus Diospyros.

2. A tree that yields such wood.

3. (colour) A deep, dark black colour.

THIS is why it's called Ebony.

 

If Morrowind's use is incorrect, why is it used the same way in Arena and Daggerfall?

[Armod]

Abramul

 

I don't understand your first two arguments, so I don't really know how to answer them. The answer to "If Morrowind's use is incorrect, why is it used the same way in Arena and Daggerfall?" is that Bethesda got it wrong in Arena and Daggerfall as well. I am afraid that it is simply a fact that ebony is the wood of a living tree that has to be cut down and NOT a mineral that can be mined from the ground. Are you denying this, and if so, where is your evidence?

 

I can add that my post was not intended to be a personal attack on you. You are very far from being the only one perpetuating this misconception (in fact, you are probably in the vast majority of players - but that doesn't make it right). I am sorry if I have upset you.

 

 

EDIT

 

Now I think I understand your post. You are suggesting that what Bethesda calls "ebony" is actually a completely fictional substance with a completely fictional origin and completely fictional properties and which is only called "ebony" because it is very dark or black. Well, who knows, but that seems to be stretching it a bit to me. Why then, for example, did they drop the "ebony mines" in Oblivion? And here's another counter argument: the only "ebony sword" (i.e., that is what Bethesda calls it) that I am aware of in Oblivion has a normal shiny STEEL blade but a very dark brown hilt. In other words, the "ebony" of the name can only refer to the wood of the hilt.

 

 

EDIT 2

 

Correction: I was too tired to search for the link last night, but now that I have, I find that, even more tellingly, the sword I referred to is called by Bethesda the "Ebony Blade". You can find minimal notes and a picture of the sword (click on it to enlarge) here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ebony_Blade. Clearly the actual blade of this "Ebony Blade" is either normal steel or else there is a contradiction with your theory that "ebony", as used by Bethesda, refers to a fictional mined substance that is only called "ebony" because, like the real ebony, it is dark or black. Whatever else it may be, this blade is certainly not dark or black, so, if your theory is correct, that only leaves the hilt, which is indeed a very dark brown, that could possibly have given this sword its descriptive name. But then, if this hilt is made of your fictional dark mined mineral with it's mythic strength rather than simply from the wood ebony, why didn't Bethesda make the actual blade of this sword, which, after all, it went out of its way to call the "Ebony Blade", from this material (and just as you suggested the blade of the Aztec sword could be)?

 

To me, this is almost conclusive proof that, in Oblivion at least, "ebony" refers to the wood ebony. So, does this mean that "ebony" armor is also made of wood? Well, in principle, why not? The Japanese Samurai used wooden (i.e., bamboo) armor to defend themselves against the most savage swords ever made, and most European shields were, of course, basically wood with some iron or steel reinforcement. The difficulties with wood are that is has to be carved and that it has a tendency to split. Because of its high density (it sinks in water) and extremely fine grain, ebony is amongst the least prone of woods to splitting, and carving it into armor would probably be no more difficult than carving a mineral or casting a glass armor (only in a fantasy game would anyone actually consider doing any of this, of course).

 

Finally, today's date (April 1st, as of writing) has made me reconsider whether Bethesda's "ebony mines" were simply a mistake. It now occurs to me that they could actually have originally been a joke or hoax, like the "spaghetti trees" or " jam-butty mines" (probably only older British readers will have a clue what I am alluding to here). They wanted a dark material like ebony to make sinister looking armor from, but they couldn't fit in ebony plantations into an essentially European fantasy world, so they invented the "ebony mines" as an in-joke. Since Obivion is supposed to be more serious and "realistic" (at least more consistent with a magically "enhanced" but otherwise credible European-like world) than its precursors, presumably they decided to drop the "ebony mines" joke along with the guars and cliff-racers.

[Abramul]

That would be the Ebony Blade, I expect. Odd...it does look like a normal metal. If it did use the wood, that would explain why 'Ebony Blade' was a sufficiently distinct name.

 

Ebony weapons look like this.

 

I'm surprised you haven't seen any...odds are, you're less than level 16, or have a mod active that significantly alters leveled lists.

[solidshake]

Quote from Solidshake: "Err, they were made with obsidian edges. It's proven that the obsidian used was sharper than steel, so it'd be a lot of damage inflicted."

 

I knew it wasn't really flint that the edges were made of, but I couldn't remember what the actual mineral was. Now that you have reminded me that it was obsidian, I have been able to research and can now report these findings. According to Mohs Scale of Mineral Hardness, iron rates 4 to 5, obsidian 5 to 5.5, and hardened steel 7 to 8 (remember that this is just a scale of the order of hardness of various minerals, and the numbers do not reflect how MUCH harder each mineral is than another). Thus, an obsidian blade may indeed be sharper (i.e., have a thinner edge) than a steel blade , but that doesn't mean that the obsidian blade would cut through the steel blade (the edge of a sheet of paper is sharper than a glass bottle, but it won't cut through it, because glass is harder than paper). I can certainly imagine that obsidian tipped pointed weapons like spears, darts, and arrows could penetrate steel armor (with sufficient force behind it, even a wooden spear could do that), but I have extreme doubts that a low mass (because it is mainly made of wood) sword with flat obsidian edges would make any significant dent in even iron, let alone steel armor. Remember that even with steel weapons, the object was to find the weak points in armor, like the joints and throat (and preferably skewer the enemy at one of these points after you had knocked him down), rather than hack away in the hope of cutting through it. And, of course, remember also that a mere handful of steel armored and weaponed Conquistadores managed to withstand everything that the numerically far superior Aztecs could throw at them militarily.

 

In any case, my personal lack of enthuisiasm for your proposal was really more to do with aesthetics. The swords in Guild Wars whose designs are apparently inspired by these Aztec swords are really ugly, and I think that most players are glad when they progress beyond having to use them.

 

 

Quote from Abramul: "That said, Raw Ebony might be used instead of Obsidian, which would certainly result in a tougher weapon."

 

How could a blade made entirely of wood be tougher than one made of wood with inset obsidian edges? Yes, that's right, ebony is WOOD. The notion that ebony is some kind of mineral extracted from the ground is one of the biggest bloopers in Morrowind (with its famous "raw ebony mines"), and I am amazed that this mistake by Bethesda is still being perpetuated now. Ebony is, in fact, a very dark, very fine grained, and very dense wood, used in cabinetwork, decorative carving, and, for example, for making the black piano keys, but it is without question obtained from living TREES. What Bethesda actually had in mind when they originally made this blooper was jet, which is mineralised fossil wood formed underground (like coal only under much greater pressure). Jet can indeed be, and is, mined, but since it can be carved, I am not sure that it has the properties of great strength that Bethesda mythically ascribes to it. At any rate, Bethesda evidently recognised (but didn't publicise) its mistake - there are no "ebony mines" in Cyrodiiil and ebony armor is dark brown (suggesting some kind of wood) rather than (jet) black.

 

Err, you DO know that the Spanish had nearly 300,000 Native allies right? So, basically you are underestimating and insulting the Aztec weapon of choice by saying a wood spear can go through steel? Uh...Bernal Diaz del Castillo's steel armor was easily penetrated by the Aztec lance/halfberd (tipped with obsidian in the same manner of the Macuahuitl) and the only thing that saved his life was Aztec made cotton armor.

 

The Macuahuitl must've been extremely deadly since the Aztec warrior most likely had weapon finesse.

 

This argument/conversation is EXTREMELY irrelevant, since i'm asking for this weapon to be made for Oblivion

[tigershark13]

lol what's funny is that oblivion is a FANTASY game. so forget about realism people!

[seedy]

3rd mod list:

Tomahawk: thrown axe, see http://t4.images.live.com/images/thumbnail...a6f139fd94fa629

Desert type areas: With cacti and cow skulls!!!!

fragility: everything must be breakable!!

Tattooes: get inked!!

And, presenting my most contreversial idea yet:

GUNs: Not big ones, just some very expensive pistols, maybe a musket with bayonet.

Planescape tattos would be good. I don't know how far the modding can be pushed with scripting and OBSE won't work properly since i installed the latest patch (yes i have latest copy, i suspect it might a system resources issue as i crash a lot when i use it)

[seedy]

I'd like to see mods that make horses as manuevable as running ( i end up running everywhere),

 

the arrow keys make you move in the relevant direction (with shift arrow for turning without moving)

 

more summonable 'good' creatures ...as a conjurer i don't think i should be summoning undead, that is what necromancers do

 

dragons

 

fast flight

 

sea monsters

 

more ghost stories (where the ghosts aren't evil, just trapped, kids or animals can be good here, like a ghost dog howling in a graveyard because it's master has been stolen from the grave to be used a s a necromancers toy

 

*****and finally******

 

when you make new potion, you get it added to your list of recipes, and when you want to make a potion, you check your recipe list, and if you have the ingredients, it gets made, rather than trying to remember if it was daedra teeth, ham, rice and crazy imp slime to make a potion of "cure tooth decay". The usual solution is to flip from oblivion to a spreadsheet, but how immersion breaking is that!